Gourmet Brined Chicken

[fleetz]

Thanks Captain for tweaking your brine recipe. Can I assume the salt you are referring to is non iodise table salt? Obviously there is different amounts of salt if it were kosher or flossy salt if volume is the measure.

I plan on brining a 3kg chicken for Xmas day is it possible to over brine the bird? I was planning on brining it in the fridge overnight probably 9-10 hours is this excessive?

Cheers,

Fleetz

[Captain Cook]

Thanks Captain for tweaking your brine recipe. Can I assume the salt you are referring to is non iodise table salt? Obviously there is different amounts of salt if it were kosher or flossy salt if volume is the measure.

I plan on brining a 3kg chicken for Xmas day is it possible to over brine the bird? I was planning on brining it in the fridge overnight probably 9-10 hours is this excessive?

Cheers,

Fleetz

Increase the water content by 1/2 litre, that will reduce the concentrate by 30% giving you a great level for 10 - 12 hours. I use normal table salt.
i use the higher concentrate (1/2 cup of each because of the time factor.

Cheers

captain

[Amfibius]

I agree, injection brining is the way to go. I use 5% salt, but I also inject 20% of the weight of the bird in brine. i.e. 4kg bird - 800mL of brine. IMO the result is superior to conventional wet brining at a fraction of the time.

[Smokey]

I agree, injection brining is the way to go. I use 5% salt, but I also inject 20% of the weight of the bird in brine. i.e. 4kg bird - 800mL of brine. IMO the result is superior to conventional wet brining at a fraction of the time.

A question to the pump brine guys,
I understand the concept that when curing say a ham that pumping is nessesary but that same ham still needs imersion in a wet brine.
How does pump brining work when injecting into dead flesh when the needle hole so easily lets it out again?
I know some still stays in there but does it actually do the osmosis tango or are you mearly pumping the meat with a tasty level of salt solution?
When you pump brine, Does the colegen get that jelly effect before you cook it?

Thanks

[titch]

Woolworths sell something called a self basting Chicken
The bag looks full of Liquid, would that be a brined Chicken?
I know in England they have Tumbled the chickens in a brine to keep them moist, same thing maybe.

[Chargrilled]

I agree, injection brining is the way to go. I use 5% salt, but I also inject 20% of the weight of the bird in brine. i.e. 4kg bird - 800mL of brine. IMO the result is superior to conventional wet brining at a fraction of the time.

A question to the pump brine guys,
I understand the concept that when curing say a ham that pumping is nessesary but that same ham still needs imersion in a wet brine.
How does pump brining work when injecting into dead flesh when the needle hole so easily lets it out again?
I know some still stays in there but does it actually do the osmosis tango or are you mearly pumping the meat with a tasty level of salt solution?
When you pump brine, Does the colegen get that jelly effect before you cook it?

Thanks

I'm not sure whether this will answer your questions mick but here is where I started.

I try not to get too technical when cooking, if the end result is good I'll keep doing it
When injecting the bird I don't get any brine leaking back out of the injection holes...I think a slow injection may help??

[Amfibius]

I agree, injection brining is the way to go. I use 5% salt, but I also inject 20% of the weight of the bird in brine. i.e. 4kg bird - 800mL of brine. IMO the result is superior to conventional wet brining at a fraction of the time.

A question to the pump brine guys,
I understand the concept that when curing say a ham that pumping is nessesary but that same ham still needs imersion in a wet brine.
How does pump brining work when injecting into dead flesh when the needle hole so easily lets it out again?
I know some still stays in there but does it actually do the osmosis tango or are you mearly pumping the meat with a tasty level of salt solution?
When you pump brine, Does the colegen get that jelly effect before you cook it?

Thanks

Hi Smokey, I get some brine leakage out the injection holes but not very much. Probably less than 5% of the brine comes back out. The secret is to make sure the brine gets into all muscle planes. The same technique is taught to doctors when infiltrating local anaesthetic - you want the solution to go everywhere, you don't want to create pockets of solution in the flesh. To achieve this, you push the needle all the way in, then inject the solution as you draw the needle out. You then go in to a different spot, and inject while withdrawing. Repeat until the area you wish to infiltrate is full of solution.

And yes, watch that video posted by Chargrilled - it will give you a good idea. BTW I use a hospital grade needle and syringe, not a fenestrated needle that you typically find with marinade injectors. You don't need to use my technique with a fenestrated needle, but it might be a good idea to push it back and forth while injecting.

If you allow the meat to rest and equilibrate, then yes it does do that "osmosis tango"

Injection brining does not convert collagen to gelatin - only heat + time does that.

[Smokey]

Thanks Gents, I will have a good go at it.
Always on the "Learn"
Re the Jello, There are parts of the joints that go to a jelly feel, so Collagen may not have been the word I needed, Maybe the fat under the skin. It goes clear and jelly like.

[Amfibius]

Re the Jello, There are parts of the joints that go to a jelly feel, so Collagen may not have been the word I needed, Maybe the fat under the skin. It goes clear and jelly like.

You get that with roast chicken? I've only ever seen jelly under the skin with poached chicken.

[Smokey]

Re the Jello, There are parts of the joints that go to a jelly feel, so Collagen may not have been the word I needed, Maybe the fat under the skin. It goes clear and jelly like.

You get that with roast chicken? I've only ever seen jelly under the skin with poached chicken.

After it comes out of the brine. Not after its cooked.
You can feel some of the fat turns clear and jelly like in feel.

[stephenk]

Had my first attempt at the Gourmet Brined Chicken last weekend on the Q220, and was very impressed. Thanks Captain Cook for the recipe!

1.4kg Coles chicken. Made brine to proportions in first page of this thread, with added tsp Chinese 5 Spice, dextrose powder instead of brown sugar, and himalayan mountain salt instead of simple table salt. The brine was a lengthy 12 hours overnight in a bowl, washed off, dried by paper towel, and then dried in fridge for 8 hours. Cooked between 200 and 220 degrees. Tested temp at 75mins and was 81-85 degrees at two points in the breast, so was considered well done.

Was very impressed by how succulent and juicy the result was, and skin the was just right. My wife would have preferred more flavour. I may just double the amount of garlic powder/mustard powder/chinese 5 spice. If anyone has some tried and tested suggestions for a more flavoursome (but not too spicy) brined chicken then let me know.

[Smokey]

That could just be the chook itself. Some chooks are just bland to start.
Play around with it till its to your liking.
It sounds like your wife was craving umami, Try some maggie season all or bonox in the brine. Also mushroom soy sauce has that flavour factor.
MSG is also an option.

[ghent]

I added some mushroom 'stock' to my last one - soak a handful of dried mushrooms in a cup of water with a pinch of salt and add to a basic brine with some garlic and cayenne pepper. Great taste.

[hoddo]

sorry if this is off topic, but I blame/thank Smokey Mick. I didn't know what Unami was and I bet I'm not the lone Ranger, so heres what I googled

Umami is the newsiest accepted of the five tastes the human tongue can detect, these five tastes are sweet, sour, salty, bitter, and the more recently recognized umami. This new taste called umami translates from its native Japanese into "savory", or "delicious flavor".
The long unrecognized taste of savory was first isolated by Japanese physics professor Kidnap Ikeda in 1909 who coined the name "umami". Many foods including mushrooms are naturally rich in the substances responsible for producing Umami flavor, these substances are called glutamates and nucleotides.
Professor Ikeda isolated the glutamates responsible for the umami flavor from sea kelp and figured out how to manufacture a synthetic from of glutamate called monosodium glutamate, better known by its acronym MSG.

Umami & Mushrooms
shiitake mushrooms and umami
All kinds of mushrooms contain the glutamates that produce the savory flavor of umami, but shiitake and porcini mushrooms have especially high levels of these amino acids. In addition to glutamates mushrooms are also rich in another flavor enhancing compound called nucleotides. These two umami producing compounds have a synergic effect on each other creating much more umami flavor than either one could alone.
Porcini and Shiitake mushroom powders can be used as a seasoning to add savory flavoring, or umami, to all kinds of foods without adding a distinct mushroom flavor. Porcini mushrooms like all mushrooms, are rich in the naturally occurring flavor enhancing compounds glutamates and nucleotides.
Porcini & Shiitake Mushrooms powder is especially effective in enhancing savory flavors when more than one kind of glutamate rich foods are combined. Try adding 1/4 teaspoon porcini powder, shiitake powder and soy sauce per cup of liquid to make a mild broth for soups and stews as a natural flavor enhancer that will not alter other flavors. Double those amounts to make a slightly stronger broth.

Umami Rich Foods
Many kinds of foods are rich in Umami flavor because of the glutamates that naturally occur in them. The food with the most umami is one that will be unfamiliar to most western cooks, but is used in Japanese cooking to make savory broths, such as dashi, without the use of meat.
Kombu, or sea kelp is almost 2.2% pure glutamates by dry weight making it an unusual pantry item in many western kitchens, but one worth considering. Two other top contenders are a bit more familiar and you many well have both soy sauce and parmesan cheese in your kitchen.
Both these umami rich foods are over 1% glutamates. Other umami rich foods include meats, fish, nuts, onions, grape juice, peas, mushrooms (especially shiitake and porcini), tomatoes, Worcestershire sauce, yeast extract and green tea.

[stephenk]

Thanks for that info.

Soy Sauce is a common method of adding umami, so might try that in my next brine. There are quite a few soy sauce brine recipes on the net.