60C chicken

[Amfibius]

In the past I have suggested cooking chicken to much lower temperatures than generally accepted on this forum. For my trouble, I have been called all sorts of names, including "fancy nancy" by none other than the forum moderator himself. The concerns seem to be around the risk of food poisoning and that I might lead new members astray.

I have cited a number of authorities that say that it is safe to cook chicken breast to 60C - Modernist Cuisine and Harold McGee. I know from my day job that cooking to 60C is a safe pasteurization temperature - provided the food is held at 60C for at least 15 minutes.

The danger is actually reaching that temperature - if you use a low temperature to cook your food, the delta-T is low - meaning that it will take a long time to reach 60C (the delta-T is the temperature differential between the food and the heat supplied). Tests show that if you sous-vide a chicken at 60C, you will never actually reach 60C. The temperature will climb and plateau at 58-59C and go no higher. Furthermore, it will take a long time to reach the target temperature. The prolonged exposure at low cooking temps is right smack in the danger zone for bacterial multiplication.

I now believe that a high delta-T is needed to quickly get heat into the food, but not so high that the target temperature of 60C is overshot. When I sous-vide chicken these days, I start the machine at 75C and put the chicken in. Within minutes, the chicken will absorb heat from the bath and drop the temp by 10C or so. After about 20 minutes, I turn the SV controller down to my target temp of 62C (giving a final cooked chicken temperature of 60C).

Similarly, in my Kamado - I start off with a temp of 100C and then drop the temp to 70C with the Stoker to complete the cooking. However - the dry heat and smoke of the Kamado is much less friendly to bacteria than the moist warmth of the sous-vide bath.

Provided proper technique is observed, chicken cooked at 60C is safe to eat. Not only that, it is more moist and more delicious than chicken cooked to 75C or higher. Don't believe me - watch this episode of "How to Cook like Heston" and take note of what he says at 5:30 - "if you want to stick to safety guidelines, you need to take your chicken to 75 degrees, but for me 60 gives you the perfect bird every time". Make sure you watch the whole episode to see the difference between conventionally roasted chicken to higher temperatures vs. a 60 degree bird.

I have to admit - it took me quite a while to get my head around cooking chicken to such a low target temperature. I started off cooking the breast to 70C (already 5C lower than what most books recommend), and saw that it was properly cooked. Over the past year I have been gradually dropping my cooking temperature little by little, more because I have been apprehensive than anything else. I now cook my breast to 60C, and have done so quite a few times.

This is my current recipe for the ultimate chicken. Note that I do not brine the chook - the salt and lemon juice in the SV bag is enough to evenly season the chicken. The chicken has to be butterflied so that it cooks evenly in the SV bath:

- 1.8kg chicken, butterflied
- 1 lemon
- 2 cloves of garlic
- 1 bay leaf
- 2 sprigs of thyme
- 2 tbsp salt

Rub the chicken on both sides with salt. Chop the lemon into 1cm cubes, smash the garlic, and place everything into the bag with some metal utensils (to weigh down the chicken and stop it from floating). Seal in a SV bag and start your water bath at 75C. Immerse your chicken in the bath, with more metal utensils on top if necessary. Cook for 20 minutes, then drop the temp on your SV controller to 62C. Cook for 6 hours.

After 6 hours, fire up the Kamado. Set it up for direct heat, high temperature, with smoking chips. Remove the chicken and save the juice for making sauce. Thoroughly dry with paper towels, then rub with oil. The temp of the chicken will immediately start to drop. You want the temp of your chicken to be approximately 45-50C before you put it in your Kamado. As soon as the Kamado is ready to go, put the chicken in the Kamado, breast side down. Cover, and leave for 5 minutes before turning over. Cook for another 5 minutes before checking the temperature. When the temp in the thickest part of the thigh reaches 60C, remove the chicken, cover in foil, and rest until the temp drops to 55C. Carve the chicken and serve.

[titch]

Could you see anything wrong with holding it at 62 for say 9 hours,
Timing to work hours.
Cheers.
Titch

[Amfibius]

Hi titch, at 6 hours I already find the breast starting to get a little soft. I would imagine that at 9 hours the breast would turn into mush and lose any meat texture. I wouldn't take it that long. If you have to go to work for 9 hours, you could always use a timer that kills the power after 4-5 hours. It is safe to leave the chicken in the bag at room temperature ... after all, it has been pasteurized.

[titch]

Hi titch, at 6 hours I already find the breast starting to get a little soft. I would imagine that at 9 hours the breast would turn into mush and lose any meat texture. I wouldn't take it that long. If you have to go to work for 9 hours, you could always use a timer that kills the power after 4-5 hours. It is safe to leave the chicken in the bag at room temperature ... after all, it has been pasteurized.

Of course, thank you.
Cheers.
Titch

[hsmax]

Absolutely agree. My understanding, in short, is that cooking meat for safe consumption is a combination of both time and temp, not temp alone.

Tim

[Austy]

I have to admit - it took me quite a while to get my head around cooking chicken to such a low target temperature. I started off cooking the breast to 70C (already 5C lower than what most books recommend), and saw that it was properly cooked. Over the past year I have been gradually dropping my cooking temperature little by little, more because I have been apprehensive than anything else.

Amfibius -

It was your posts, recipes, and photos that led me to begin my first attempt at lower temp chicken.

On Saturday, I brined a breast overnight in quite a strong solution (2Tbs:1L). Sunday morning, the breast was marinaded with Nando's Peri Peri salt, olive oil, lemon, garlic, and 'roast chicken seasoning' purchased from a spice shop in Dandenong. In the arvo, I fired the Kamado up to 100C, and cooked the breast to 68C, with LOTS of hickory smoking underneath. I gave the outside a very quick blast with the Hot Devil, and then let the breast cool to room temp. Then I made a weak brine (0.5Tbs:1L) and soaked the cooked breast overnight - I was aiming for something similar to the smoked breasts that can be purchased from nice deli's, that are normally cryo'd in a brine.

Well - I ate half today with lunch. It was the most tender and juicy breast I've ever eaten. Ever.

This is the only photo I have, which is of the thinnest part of the breast.



So - thank you!

Cheers,

Aaron.

[Smokey]

You are right Fib, I did some experimentation since you joined up and I now take breast meat or tenders to 60C.
They are delicious.
Ive been taking whole birds hot roasted off at 70-75c and that is as low as I can handle as far as the meat around the bones go.
Its just a personal thing that I like the meat to slip off the bone. I think Ive got it down to right around that point.
Thanks for the in-depth post

[Davo]

In the past I have suggested cooking chicken to much lower temperatures than generally accepted on this forum. For my trouble, I have been called all sorts of names, including "fancy nancy" by none other than the forum moderator himself. The concerns seem to be around the risk of food poisoning and that I might lead new members astray.

Amfibius....I'm sorry if you mis-understood me, I wasn't calling you 'Fancy Nancy" It was more calling the technique that name....not you.

I appreciate the time and effort you made in explaining this in your post, sounds interesting, although not 100% convinced.

It was a good read though...thanx!!

cheers

Davo

[Amfibius]

Davo, thank you for the clarification. BTW - what changed my mind was the realization that I could always microwave my meat to done-ness if it was undercooked. If it's too pink for you, a couple of minutes in the zapper will fix it

[mustud52]

I have found that once the inner temp gets over 70 the texture and moisture really starts falling off. I aim for Keith's 60 mark as a minimum and find that to achieve that minimum most pieces will be about 65 and a max of about 67 or 68. That works OK for me.

The Thermapen makes it very easy.

[Bill44]

I have found that once the inner temp gets over 70 the texture and moisture really starts falling off. I aim for Keith's 60 mark as a minimum and find that to achieve that minimum most pieces will be about 65 and a max of about 67 or 68. That works OK for me.

The Thermapen makes it very easy.

For moist chicken at higher temps, try brining. Once you have tried brined chicken you won't go back to not brined.