The Science of Brining

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urbangriller
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by urbangriller » Tue Apr 02, 2013 8:55 pm

Now that is an interesting idea, I'm keen to know what happens!

Chris
Common Sense is so rare these days it should be a Super Power!


120ThingsIn20Years
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by 120ThingsIn20Years » Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:56 pm

It's very difficult to get the same reading twice, because the contact area is critical, but I'm thinking I might be able to get a better reading from the solution rather than the meat.

The only problem is my brain.

I cant figure out what I should be seeing. For some reason I understand what I should be seeing in the meat but not in the solution.

I think it's a single malt kind of problem :)
My skills include being able to move slowly forward in time, and if I really concentrate, I can sometimes tell what I'm thinking.

urbangriller
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by urbangriller » Wed Apr 03, 2013 12:19 pm

120ThingsIn20Years wrote:It's very difficult to get the same reading twice, because the contact area is critical, but I'm thinking I might be able to get a better reading from the solution rather than the meat.

The only problem is my brain.

I cant figure out what I should be seeing. For some reason I understand what I should be seeing in the meat but not in the solution.

I think it's a single malt kind of problem :)

I'm thinking that you might see a change in the conductivity in the meat, but the solution it is in would increase in salinity slightly in the first phase. then stabilise but during the phase where it is being absorbed into the meat, it should not change?

Chris
Common Sense is so rare these days it should be a Super Power!

120ThingsIn20Years
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by 120ThingsIn20Years » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:47 pm

urbangriller wrote:
120ThingsIn20Years wrote:It's very difficult to get the same reading twice, because the contact area is critical, but I'm thinking I might be able to get a better reading from the solution rather than the meat.

The only problem is my brain.

I cant figure out what I should be seeing. For some reason I understand what I should be seeing in the meat but not in the solution.

I think it's a single malt kind of problem :)

I'm thinking that you might see a change in the conductivity in the meat, but the solution it is in would increase in salinity slightly in the first phase. then stabilise but during the phase where it is being absorbed into the meat, it should not change?

Chris
I cant tell if that's a question or an answer :)

I've posted the dilemma to everyone I can think of that might be able to help.

I'll re-read the article and try to make some of it stick in my addled brain.

Either way, it's going to have to wait until Mrs 120ThingsIn20Years gets over the fact that there is a chicken drying in the fridge's vegetable drawer. It was the only clean thing big enough to brine in :)

It worked pretty well actually. The slots designed to keep veggies above any liquid also allow themselves to be filled with raw chicken juice, and keep the chicken dry when it's finished it's brining thing.

I think it's fair that I get one of the two.

In the future, fridge manufacturers will be forced to have a pork belly hanging section, and a brining drawer :)
120 Things in 20 years - Making smoked foods - Brined and smoked pork ribs.JPG
Gratuitous brined and smoked rib shot from last night
120 Things in 20 years - Making smoked foods - Brined and smoked pork ribs.JPG (223.99 KiB) Viewed 4730 times
My skills include being able to move slowly forward in time, and if I really concentrate, I can sometimes tell what I'm thinking.

Chargrilled
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by Chargrilled » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:17 pm

120ThingsIn20Years wrote:
In the future, fridge manufacturers will be forced to have a pork belly hanging section, and a brining drawer :)
I think your onto something there!

aussie
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by aussie » Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:39 pm

If I have this right...

Brine is a good conductor.

Meat has enough resistance to produce heat.

Meat with added moisture and salt would be a better conductor than plain meat.

Using Mrs Marsh theory on it does get in but it takes longer to reach the center than the exposed surface. There would be a graduated change in conductivity as the meat goes from natural state to fully saturated.

Now a bit of unknown is if the brine changes in salt content during the brining process untill it is equal in salt concentration with the meat? Type and cut of meat will play a part, chicken would asorb more brine than pork so the chicken can be more salty than pork.

I am not sure anyone cooks meat by using it as a resistor in an electrical curcuit? Radiated heat either direct or indirect I doubt will be affected by conductivity, moisture is another thing altogether.

Is there anything practical in all that? Maybe easier to have moist chicken than pork but it can turn out more salty.

Is that single malt a shot on the rocks or a whole bottle?

urbangriller
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by urbangriller » Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:59 am

aussie wrote:If I have this right...

Brine is a good conductor. YES

Meat has enough resistance to produce heat. ummm?

Meat with added moisture and salt would be a better conductor than plain meat. YES

Using Mrs Marsh theory on it does get in but it takes longer to reach the center than the exposed surface. There would be a graduated change in conductivity as the meat goes from natural state to fully saturated. YES

Now a bit of unknown is if the brine changes in salt content during the brining process untill it is equal in salt concentration with the meat? Type and cut of meat will play a part, chicken would asorb more brine than pork so the chicken can be more salty than pork. In the first stage the particulate liquid between the protiens at the cellular level is absorbed into the brine (so the brine becomes slightly weaker) then the brine is absorbed into the meat until equilibrium is reached (the salt/particulate level in the liquid in the cell is the same in the brine outside). The brine level reduces, the salinity stays the same.

I am not sure anyone cooks meat by using it as a resistor in an electrical curcuit? Radiated heat either direct or indirect I doubt will be affected by conductivity, moisture is another thing altogether. There are a few patents for cooking devices that use this idea, this guy cooks hot dogs by plugging them in!: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2007/co ... trocution/ . It's an interesting idea, but obviously nobody has perfected it yet......they would have said that about microwaves fifty years ago!

Is there anything practical in all that? Maybe easier to have moist chicken than pork but it can turn out more salty.

Is that single malt a shot on the rocks or a whole bottle? That depends on the size of the glass!


Cheers
Chris
Common Sense is so rare these days it should be a Super Power!

Bill44
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by Bill44 » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:12 am

Me dumb, me brine chicken, me bbq chicken, chicken is moist, Mrs dumb is happy, me happy.
Bill
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NotoriousPIG
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by NotoriousPIG » Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:30 am

Bill44 wrote:Me dumb, me brine chicken, me bbq chicken, chicken is moist, Mrs dumb is happy, me happy.
I'm in the same boat Bill. :D
Image
donburke wrote:to answer your question "what can be better"
beer & bbq is pretty darn good, but still comes in 2nd to hookers and toot

aussie
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by aussie » Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:53 pm

Meat has enough resistance to produce heat. ummm?
You answered your own ummm below.
I am not sure anyone cooks meat by using it as a resistor in an electrical curcuit? Radiated heat either direct or indirect I doubt will be affected by conductivity, moisture is another thing altogether. There are a few patents for cooking devices that use this idea, this guy cooks hot dogs by plugging them in!: http://www.evilmadscientist.com/2007/co ... trocution/ . It's an interesting idea, but obviously nobody has perfected it yet......they would have said that about microwaves fifty years ago!
Not sure you can perfect it with the way electricity works. If you put your arm across the terminals of a car battery the charge would travel from the + to the - terminals and you would get an entry burn and a exit burn that would be smaller because as the current moves through your arm the resistance produces heat which lowers the current flow and heat as it gets closer to the negative terminal.
AC you have the highest heat each end so the hotdog would cook faster on the ends, if you have an old fashioned wire element radiator as a heater you can see the ends heat up first.

120ThingsIn20Years
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by 120ThingsIn20Years » Sat Apr 06, 2013 4:35 pm

I wasn't thinking about cooking the meat with resistance. Just discovering the point at which the meat has taken up as much salt as it's going to before it switches to taking in water.

If there's a perceived benefit to changing the brine solution at this point, then using a multimeter to check the resistance might be one way to discover that point.
My skills include being able to move slowly forward in time, and if I really concentrate, I can sometimes tell what I'm thinking.

aussie
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by aussie » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:23 am

120ThingsIn20Years wrote:I wasn't thinking about cooking the meat with resistance. Just discovering the point at which the meat has taken up as much salt as it's going to before it switches to taking in water.
I think as Chris explained it the meat takes in both salt and water with more salt being taken up at the start.
In the first stage the particulate liquid between the protiens at the cellular level is absorbed into the brine (so the brine becomes slightly weaker) then the brine is absorbed into the meat until equilibrium is reached (the salt/particulate level in the liquid in the cell is the same in the brine outside). The brine level reduces, the salinity stays the same.
If there's a perceived benefit to changing the brine solution at this point, then using a multimeter to check the resistance might be one way to discover that point.
I think if your aiming for a larger salt content simple way is to add more salt. I can think that if your looking to add another flavour/s via brine without it being overpowering then changing the brine may be valid, you will still need the same salt content to prevent leeching the salt out. Depending what you are adding not changing the brine and mixing in your addative may be easier than a new brine.

120ThingsIn20Years
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by 120ThingsIn20Years » Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:36 am

I tried again a few times, but don't really get any meaningful results.

Anyway, it was just a thought. These tangents always teach me something so I always follow the random thoughts :)
My skills include being able to move slowly forward in time, and if I really concentrate, I can sometimes tell what I'm thinking.

urbangriller
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by urbangriller » Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:00 am

120ThingsIn20Years wrote:I tried again a few times, but don't really get any meaningful results.

Anyway, it was just a thought. These tangents always teach me something so I always follow the random thoughts :)

Me too.....until another random thought comes along! :roll: :roll: .....or until Management tells me to stop! :cry:

Chris
Common Sense is so rare these days it should be a Super Power!

bobzed57
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Re: The Science of Brining

Post by bobzed57 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:39 pm

Great discussion thread.

I had my first crack at brining last weekend when I brined a whole chook in a brine of 2l chicken stock (powdered), 1.75l water, 3/4 cup of cooking salt, 1/2 cup of honey and 1tbsp of cloves. Popped in a zip lock bag for 20 hours and cooked in the Kamado.

The flesh was the moistest chicken I've ever eaten although when it was warm, it was salty. Not unpleasantly so, but to taste more than I would normally use. But, when the meat was cold it had that wonderful cured meat flavour and made a fantastic sandwich the next day. I suspect a bit more playing around with quantities and time, I'll work out a happy medium.

I'll also give the chicken wing test a shot.

Cheers and thanks for the tips.

Bob
Bob

Vision Grills Kamado, 5 Burner (mains gas), Weber Kettle, Weber hibachi, Anuka electric smoker and Canberra Metters wood stove, all supported with kegged home brew :-)


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