Perfectly brown crust on a Kamado pizza - Engineers opinion

[bbqnewB]

Have never seen someone work out a way on a Kamado (Green Egg, Steel Keg, Kamado Joe or whatever) to get a pizza crust perfectly crispy on top. Every photo I see of a kamado pizza has a light brown crust that just doesn't look as crispy and appetizing as as the following pizza that definitely wasn't made in a Kamado: http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/201 ... nplain.jpg

From speaking to people about the convective heat flow in a Kamado, the consensus is that the hot air typically rises from the coals, warms the pizza stone (hence the browned underside of the pizza), but then mainly flows up the walls of the Kamado to exit the top vent. Hypothesis is that for a pizza to get truly browned on top, there would need to be a way to introduce some downward heat back on to the top of the pizza:


1. Convection - Could an object (perhaps a metalic screen or metalic wheel be used to bounce the hot air back to the top of the pizza before exiting the Kamado? Think of a non-mechanical version of a regular oven fan, driven by the existing Kamado air flow....
2. Radiant - Structure to hold an extra pizza stone above the pizza? Would that make a difference?
3. Conduction - Unlikely to work unless you want the top of the pizza glued to something


I personally like the sound of a little convection widget like a basic metal fan wheel that could sit in a kamado to achieve this, any engineers/physics buffs that could comment on the likelihood of success?

[urbangriller]

That'd be why are engineers not cooks.

Have a look through this thread: http://www.aussiebbq.info/forum/viewtop ... =41&t=6733

Kamados do awesome pizza! No mods necessaer, it's just about how you set it up and what heat you run.

Here are some examples:









Cheers
Chris

[Joeka]

I've gotta say, I don't like the look of the pizza linked from the original post at all. In particular, the crust on top looks burned, not nicely browned.

But moving along...

From speaking to people about the convective heat flow in a Kamado, the consensus is that the hot air typically rises from the coals, warms the pizza stone (hence the browned underside of the pizza), but then mainly flows up the walls of the Kamado to exit the top vent. Hypothesis is that for a pizza to get truly browned on top, there would need to be a way to introduce some downward heat back on to the top of the pizza:

That's not how I do it. My stone gets radiant heat from the coals. I typically put it onto the deflector, so strictly speaking the deflector soaks up the radiant heat, then conducts it to the pizza stone. That way, both deflector + pizza stone act as heat stores, so when you put the cold(ish) pizza base onto it they don't lose much heat.

As for the heating of the top: unlike a Weber (or at least how I believe Webers work) a kamado soaks up a lot of heat in its ceramic shell, and in particular the air temperature up high is often significantly higher than the air at cooking level. This heats the ceramic, and the ceramic radiates it back onto the pizza top.

I think this is about the same as how a wood fired pizza oven works, except the woodfired oven does it all at higher temperatures, and therefore radiates more heat from above.

[Green Nigel]

I've gotta say, I don't like the look of the pizza linked from the original post at all. In particular, the crust on top looks burned, not nicely browned.

Me neither...it looks like it's been cooked until there's hardly any moisture left in it whatsoever.

I use exactly the same set-up in my egg as in Urbangrillers first picture & never have any problem achieving a perectly brown crust.
I find that an oven temp about 250 Deg C appears to be the sweet-spot temp-wise for achieving a crispy base & fully cooked top for the style & thickness of pizzas that my family prefers.

As for the heating of the top: unlike a Weber (or at least how I believe Webers work) a kamado soaks up a lot of heat in its ceramic shell, and in particular the air temperature up high is often significantly higher than the air at cooking level. This heats the ceramic, and the ceramic radiates it back onto the pizza top.

Fully agree with Joeka on this point...I like to let my egg heat-soak at the desired temp for at least 1hr before attempting to cook my first pizza, the radiant heat from the dome is IMHO essential for producing an evenly cooked pizza.

[Card Shark]

GN, sounds like we all cook pies pretty much the same. CS

[Smokey]

Just on this forum alone, I've seen great looking pizza and some average looking pizza.
Note I say looking
The kamado is perfect for pizza so if you've seen lousy looking pizza from komados it just may be folk learning the craft but putting out their efforts anyway for view and hoping for feedback. And that is a good thing.
Have you seen what Sosman turns out of his kamado He's a top ten percenter, 90% of his Pizza is perfect, The other 10% he goofs.
It's the Que master, Not the Que that does the learning.

[Meat and eat]

It's the Que master, Not the Que that does the learning.

That's absolutely correct

Cheers

Meat and eat

[Gumb]

I find around 250c is perfect for pizza, as Green Nigel suggests and we turn out good pizzas most times. I agree about the original picture, it looks burnt.

[Meat and eat]

We cook most of our pizzas in the 320Q and find it needs 260C,
with the longest time possible to preheat the stone.

Cheers

Meat and eat

[DClem]

Hi all

i have been baking pizzas at 250-300ish, and usually pretty good, though occasionally a bit flaccid.

last weekend I forgot about the kamado and left it with fully open vents for a long time - and came out to find the temp gauge off the scale....700F or so (though the primo gauge is dodgy....it was bloody hot anyway).

threw the pizzas in - and they were sensational. cooked much quicker, and definitely better than usual. Will shoot for that again next time.

[urbangriller]

Hi all

i have been baking pizzas at 250-300ish, and usually pretty good, though occasionally a bit flaccid.

last weekend I forgot about the kamado and left it with fully open vents for a long time - and came out to find the temp gauge off the scale....700F or so (though the primo gauge is dodgy....it was bloody hot anyway).

threw the pizzas in - and they were sensational. cooked much quicker, and definitely better than usual. Will shoot for that again next time.

Were the toppings cooked? I find if I'm running too hot the base burns before the prawns cook.

Cheers
Chris

[DClem]

Toppings were all good....it was the only time I ever wished I'd taken a photo...

I set up with the deflectors in...the stone...and pizzas on a tray, so I think that protects the bases pretty well.

[merlot]

Love experimenting to get better pizza. There are so many variables, so it's always interesting to see what other people do..

Currently preparing pizza dough the night before using the no-knead method (http://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/no-knead-pizza-dough). Time does awesome things to dough. Sourdough starter would probably improve it further. Some people add sugar to help caramelization.

Keeping the prep-time speedy to avoid the dough getting stuck or too moist from ingredients and the kamado temps high are then the main ingredients for me.

With my primo the current favoured method by primo owners is to stick the stone as high up as possible so that the heat flows over the top of the ingredients. This works in a conventional oven as well, but you need to be very close to the top to get the same effect (and I can never get the stone hot enough to get the base crispy). No problem with cooking prawns this way.

Woodfired pizza ovens seem to work on the direct radiant heat from the coals to really brown the edges and cook the ingredients quickly so I'm inclined to really crank the primo until I get it belching flame and leave the vent partially open so you get the thermometer going off the charts which means there is probably a super hot blue flame firing up around your stone. The jury's still out on this but I do find closing the vents makes it hard to maintain a 300C+ temp which cooks my pizza's in around 6 minutes. This seems to be the hardest bit about a kamado compared with a pizza oven, so I'm tempted to use a fan to keep pushing oxygen in. I do use the heat deflector plates to protect the pizza stone from cracking.

[Card Shark]

Hi all

i have been baking pizzas at 250-300ish, and usually pretty good, though occasionally a bit flaccid.

last weekend I forgot about the kamado and left it with fully open vents for a long time - and came out to find the temp gauge off the scale....700F or so (though the primo gauge is dodgy....it was bloody hot anyway).

threw the pizzas in - and they were sensational. cooked much quicker, and definitely better than usual. Will shoot for that again next time.

It all gets back to the style of dough you use. The wetter the higher the temp and the shorter the cook helping the pie not to dry out. I like NY style sour doughs and start mine in a BGE at 600f and they end up at 550 ish after the cold pie on the stone. I don't lift the lid to check doneness during the cook to keep in the heat. Instead use the good old fishing torch head lamp to peer down through the upper vent. Usually the first pie or two have a tenancy to burn the base with that higher initial dome temp. Easy to compensate by placing the regular grate over the pizza stone and cooking the top for the last few minutes with the base raised. CS

[Smokey]

I think the op was having a lend,