Bacon questions

Post your recipe requests and cooking questions in this setion. Not for general discussions.
Smokey
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Fri Aug 16, 2013 2:13 pm

Shayne, Your not reading it right, Its actually half the rate that you use.

Gnols recepie is a tolal of 725 grams
725 divided by 23 = 31.43 (Aplications for 31.43 kilos)
50gms Nitrite divided by 31.43 = 1.59 grams of cure # 1 per kg.

He could double the amount
Last edited by Smokey on Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
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shayneh2006
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by shayneh2006 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:09 pm

Ahhh, I see.


The confusion in me has been due to the fact that......... I make the mix from scratch each time I need it....

It is clear to me now that some of you are making a large batch of dry rub mixture, and taking for that to apply to your individual piece of meat.

Look at Chris's recipe bellow
urbangriller wrote:
Smoked Bacon with Honey Cure
Ingredients
• 250g Salt
• 10g Kwikurit.............Roughly weighed on the 5g increment scales in the LB, 1 tab of Kwikurit was 15g! (I'll do this later at BBQ HQ to get a better reading)
• 500ml Honey
• 1 slab bacon
• Hickory Wood Chip or Sawdust

METHOD
Mix the salt and Kwikurit together thoroughly and rub into the bacon. Once the rubbing has been completed, pour the honey over the bacon and smother evenly. Wrap the bacon in a plastic bag or sheet and refrigerate at 5°C for about 6 days.
Using warm water, wash the excess cure & honey off the bacon. Allow the bacon to dry in room temperate for about 30 minutes. While the bacon is drying, heat up a smokehouse to 60°C. Place bacon into the smokehouse after drying and allow the bacon to dry with all dampers open. Close the dampers until about ¼ open and apply the smoke. Smoke the bacon until the core temperature reaches 50-55°C.
Reduce the temperature of the smoker to 45°C and smoke until the desired colour is obtained.
Remove the bacon from the smoker and place in a refrigerator and allow to set overnight before slicing.


Chris
If I am reading this right, Chris will use all of the mixed ingredients and apply it to his meat (which is what I do)


Then theres this, from NP. Again, mixed like I do it and apply it all to the meat.

NotoriousPIG wrote: Image
This is where I started going of the rails.

2 TBS or 30 grams of cure #1 is excessive. Heres where this recipe is really weird.

They have not given a weight of meat.

So how do you know where you stand, what the uptake should be. Whats the finished PPM of Nitrite to meat ratio :?: :?:


We have all been thinking on different terms......Cure #1 in its raw and members bulk curing mixes



Shayne
Image

Don't argue with idiots.. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

urbangriller
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by urbangriller » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:02 pm

Not my recipe, that came from http://www.butcherquip.com.au/smoked-ba ... honey-cure
It looks like a rework of the one NP had.

This is doing my head in and I have to say: I'm no expert on Nitrate cures!

But when I think about the method for non-nitrate cures using just salt and sugar, the most basic one does not care about the weight. Now, you can over-salt the meat like that if you are not careful, but surely there is a point where the meat stops taking it up. You can get more sophisticated and calculate the amount of salt cure you need so as not to waste salt, but I don't see how this would change the takeup rate, the takeup is dictated by the time.

Unless nitrate/nitrite has a tendancy to be absorbed first (can't see how) it surely does not matter how much cure you use, just so long as it is the right concentration....that's the important part! It seems that calculating for the weight of the meat is confusing things, mind you, you do need to know you have enough cure to do the job thouroughly!

Cheers
Chris
Common Sense is so rare these days it should be a Super Power!

NotoriousPIG
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by NotoriousPIG » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:18 pm

Also I soak mine for half an hour after its cured. How much of the nitrate would come out of the meat during this process?
Image
donburke wrote:to answer your question "what can be better"
beer & bbq is pretty darn good, but still comes in 2nd to hookers and toot

Smokey
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:58 pm

NotoriousPIG wrote:Also I soak mine for half an hour after its cured. How much of the nitrate would come out of the meat during this process?
Dunno NP, That question might read "Can the belly be de-pickled via reverse osmosis?
All we do know are what the safe level is. Im sure Ive got my head around that and just as Shayne pointed out and myself earlier, Is that many recepies out there are missleading or dont tell the whole story.
One can miss read them and screw up trying to follow them.
Being confident that I am that the Nitrate levels are somewhat sorted the next step is how much added salt do we add so that you dont have to soak.
Of course using a prepack wet cure mix achieves this and Ive been using them for some time.
However the bacon comes out just the same as from a super market. Certainly not artisan like dry curing can do

So when I do a proposed sticky I will average all the users imput and probably go a bit lower as a starting point and do a test (We all can test) Not salty enough? then we can adjust from there.
Chris, Re time= saltyness. I go by when the belly stiffens up. Anywhere between 5 - 7 days
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
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Nath
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Bacon questions

Post by Nath » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:36 am

This got sidetracked quickly.
I do not mind really. But it did confuse the f out of me.


Nath
Nath

NotoriousPIG
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: Duncraig, Western Australia

Re: Bacon questions

Post by NotoriousPIG » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:41 am

Busio90 wrote:This got sidetracked quickly.
I do not mind really. But it did confuse the f out of me.


Nath
:lol: just don't follow the cure I've used. :oops: :lol:
Image
donburke wrote:to answer your question "what can be better"
beer & bbq is pretty darn good, but still comes in 2nd to hookers and toot

NotoriousPIG
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Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: Duncraig, Western Australia

Re: Bacon questions

Post by NotoriousPIG » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:57 pm

Two interesting reads
http://chriskresser.com/the-nitrate-and ... fear-bacon

This one how the levels of nitrate come down afte soaking smoking and baking. I've got a test kit on the way and will be testing my bacon when it arrives. :D
http://www.meatsandsausages.com/sausage ... g/nitrates
Image
donburke wrote:to answer your question "what can be better"
beer & bbq is pretty darn good, but still comes in 2nd to hookers and toot

hoddo
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Location: Northwest Sydney

Re: Bacon questions

Post by hoddo » Sun Sep 22, 2013 11:00 am

My 2 cents worth using cure #1, I am no expert but this is what I have gleaned from hours of reading and cross referencing posts, Firstly if your talking bacon, smoking it to an internal temp over 140 f will start to render out the fat and cook the meat, what you are making is cooked bacon which is good if you want to eat it straight away. Remember bacon is cooked before you eat it so in my humble opinion smoke it cold and cook it when you want to eat it. Dry cure or wet your choice but ratio of cure/brine to meat weight is what its all about. This link is to diggingdogfarm's handy calc

http://diggingdogfarm.com/page2.html

This is for equilibrium brine/cures works for dry or wet cures, in a wet cure enter the weight of meat + water
You should be trying for min liquid to completely cover meat eg 1:1 or 2:1 meat : liquid

Here is Martin's (diggingdogfarm) brief discription of equilibrium brining
Equilibrium brining is a method of brining that makes it impossible to over-salt or over-cure meat when using a reasonable percentage of salt and the proper amount of cure. In equilibrium brining the submerged meat and the cover brine (or cover brine and injected brine, in larger pieces of meat) act as a single system and are considered a single unit when calculating salt, sugar and cure amounts. Over time, the ingredients in the brine migrate into the meat until levels in the meat tissue and in the brine are balanced via osmosis and diffusion. Therefore, the calculation for ingoing salt, sugar and cure is based on the weight of the meat plus the weight of the water or other liquid used in the brine.

Here is a link to martins thread on Smoking meat forum.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/1245 ... calculator

Here is a link to another good thread and recipe for an all pupose brine it checks out on the calc if you use the minimum brine to cover meat eg 4+kilo meat to 1 us gal

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/1107 ... ring-brine

I have done a few tests and conclude 1 cup seasalt is aprox 230grm
1 cup raw sugar aprox 200 grm
1 lvl tbls cure #1 is 20 grm
1 us gallon is 3.8 litre
1 litre water is 1000 grm (1kilo)

Here is a link to an easy bacon recipe using above brine. My pork bellies are in the brine mix atm

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/1248 ... e-easy-way

Here is a neat vid of how to get the ribs out of your whole pork belly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic73UAJRQDY

I am sure most of you are familiar with the smoking meat forum. It is a great source of info but beware you will lose days reading threads there.
None of the above is based on my experience but just what I have read trying to make sense of the art of bacon making.

Hogsy
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Hogsy » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:03 am

I may have missed it in this thread, but what's the best temperature to run a smoker at when hot smoking bacon?
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Angryman65
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Angryman65 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 2:56 pm

Hogsy wrote:I may have missed it in this thread, but what's the best temperature to run a smoker at when hot smoking bacon?
I did mine recently at 220F until the bacon was at 165F. wanted to get as much smoke on it as possible. Not sure if that's what the rest of the guys do nut it worked for me.
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Smokey
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:31 pm

Angryman65 wrote:
Hogsy wrote:I may have missed it in this thread, but what's the best temperature to run a smoker at when hot smoking bacon?
I did mine recently at 220F until the bacon was at 165F. wanted to get as much smoke on it as possible. Not sure if that's what the rest of the guys do nut it worked for me.
yep that's standard for hot smoking.
The only thing I could add is to cool it quick in an ice bath after it reached 165f.
When winter comes, I'm going to try out some cold smoked bacon.
BTW, I just read back a few pages back and done my head in trying to understand what the hell I was saying :oops:
Oldtimers must of set in, I was so much smarter last year :roll:
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
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Hogsy
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Hogsy » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:55 pm

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice
The cut I have is the loin and belly, just wondering where I should put the probe?
I'm figuring the belly will come up to temp before the belly. Does it even matter?
It was suggested to me to let the meat dry in the fridge for 24hrs to get better smoke penetration. Is there any need for this?
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Angryman65
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Angryman65 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:13 pm

I was so much smarter last year :roll:[/quote]

Must have something to do with making fruit juice into rocket fuel. :D :) :mrgreen:
Vegetarian is an old Indian word for bad hunter.

Smokey
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Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:58 pm

Angryman65 wrote:I was so much smarter last year :roll:
Must have something to do with making fruit juice into rocket fuel. :D :) :mrgreen:[/quote]
F yeh :wink: :roll: your to blame :P I got good at it too :P

Hogsey, no it don't matter, You still have to treat it as store bought and vac seal it for keeping/freezing as it will go off in a week under cling wrap in the fridge.
That is because your using nitrite, It's not for long term keeping but rather keeps the meat safe during the manufacturing process and also gives the pink colour and flavour.
Nitrate on the other hand is another storey for small goods that keep at crazy warm temps.
Dry in the fridge ? YES till it get a pellicule , This is your nitrite at work keeping it safe during the process.
Smoke sticks to a pellicule like shit to fur :!:
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
http://www.aussiecue.com.au


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