Bacon questions

Post your recipe requests and cooking questions in this setion. Not for general discussions.
gnol
Posts: 1142
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Werribee

Re: Bacon questions

Post by gnol » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:11 pm

Busio90 wrote:
gnol wrote:That looks fine Busio.
With the smoking I smoke at about 55-60C for about 6 hours.
I'm still in the learning stage so it is good enough for me.
Everyone is complaining because there has been no homemade bacon in the house for a few weeks.
I'll be putting on 3 bellies to cure tomorrow night for smoking the weekend after.
Thanks Gnol, any ideas how I can get this sorta temp out of the kamado, not sure I can keep it that low! Or should I do it in the kettle with only a few heatbeads going.


Nath
yes it is very hard trying to keep a temp like that in a kamado. Well it was for me the couple of times I tried.
This is the reason I purchased the Aldi smoker.
I'm no expert but I reckon it would be easier using a Weber.
Just talking from my experience using the kamado. Please note I never used a Weber to smoke bacon so maybe some of the more experienced blokes can comment here.


Smokey
Posts: 5958
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: Terranora- Tweed

Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:48 pm

The lower temps are all well and good if you can achieve them. Otherwise just smoke it as I said @190F until its cooked.
Its just an easy way to get started and get a good result.

.
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
http://www.aussiecue.com.au

Nath
Posts: 2095
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:15 am
Location: Perth WA

Bacon questions

Post by Nath » Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:55 pm

Smokey Mick wrote:The lower temps are all well and good if you can achieve them. Otherwise just smoke it as I said @190F until its cooked.
Its just an easy way to get started and get a good result.

.
50g Mick, yer your right, I may just make up the correct amount for the belly I have.


Nath
Nath

flyonline
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:58 pm

Re: Bacon questions

Post by flyonline » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:09 pm

Any comments or experiences on excess v equilibrium cure? A bit more here - http://curedmeats.blogspot.com.au/2013/ ... -cure.html

So far, the handful I've done have been excess cure but reading up on the equilibrium cure, it sounds a little more exact and repeatable.

Off to the butcher tomorrow for some more bacon ingredient :)

shayneh2006
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 5:34 pm
Location: Western Sydney

Re: Bacon questions

Post by shayneh2006 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:47 pm

Fellas,,,,,,,

Everything here is getting mixed up

The facts...........

Sodium Nitrite has been proven to cause Bowel Cancer :shock: . If used correctly, its harmless but on the other hand, excessive amount consumed can be harmfull.


Right......



There is no need to use excessive levels of cure #1

It will do your health more harm than good.
gnol wrote:keep it simple to start with.
as mentioned earlier I use the methods printed in the book Chacauterie and have had no problems so far.
Gnol, don't trust what the book says....


Gnol, and can you tell what's going on inside your body.... I had a look at your recipe and its still hits high on Nitrite levels. 1440mgs of pure in that recipe..... that finishes at 1440 ppm :shock: .

Remember, studies have been carried out in the US and the max permissible Nitrite level in commercial Bacon has been fixed at 625ppm. I have not found any info on what the Aus standards are....... but trust the US research.

All I can say is do your research before messing with this stuff.


"THERE IS NO NEED TO USE MORE THAN WHATS REQUIRED TO GET THE JOB DONE"

Below you will see my Bacon recipe, that falls well below as what the US call as the max

The dry rub....

Salt = 22.6 grams
Sugar = 12.2 grams
Cure# 1= 3.1 grams total which equates to 193.75 milligrams of pure Nitrite

Then I added a few tsp of Maple syrup.

The belly weight was 1220 grams

To end up with this.......

Image


A totally cured Pork belly, that had the best flavor I have ever experienced in Bacon.

This batch finished at 158ppm, and well below what I said earlier on :wink: .

Use my recipe, do the maths and break it down to reflect on the weight your piece is.......

Otherwise, I will not advise any further,, your health is in your own hands.


Shayne
Image

Don't argue with idiots.. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Smokey
Posts: 5958
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: Terranora- Tweed

Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Thu Aug 15, 2013 8:55 pm

Busio90 wrote:
Smokey Mick wrote:The lower temps are all well and good if you can achieve them. Otherwise just smoke it as I said @190F until its cooked.
Its just an easy way to get started and get a good result.

.
50g Mick, yer your right, I may just make up the correct amount for the belly I have.


Nath
Nath,After I asked that question I looked back and saw it was a little 50gm pack
Thats bugger all so I would go ahead with Gnols book recepie and use the pack.
Its a good mix and is all that I use and far as salt and sugar goes.
Just as long as you only use 23gms of your total mix per kg of belly you will be sweet.
My total mix per kg is 32 gms but I use a little less nitrite. But we are splitting hairs really.
The books recepie is a hot mix but not over the top.
With what you have left over you can play with the aromatics in each new bacon you do.
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
http://www.aussiecue.com.au

Smokey
Posts: 5958
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: Terranora- Tweed

Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:01 pm

Damn right its getting cloudy, Shayne Cure No 1 is what % ?, If around 6% then your mix a mid range hot, If 12% its a nail in the coffin.
From what my diminishing mental capacity can glean tonight anyway :D
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
http://www.aussiecue.com.au

shayneh2006
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 5:34 pm
Location: Western Sydney

Re: Bacon questions

Post by shayneh2006 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:07 pm

My cure #1 is 6.25%

Ive done the maths........

And all I have stated is fact :wink:



Shayne
Image

Don't argue with idiots.. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Smokey
Posts: 5958
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: Terranora- Tweed

Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:14 pm

shayneh2006 wrote:My cure #1 is 6.25%

Ive done the maths........

And all I have stated is fact :wink:



Shayne
I have too, And that (6.25%) per 37.9 gms mix per kg checks out at around the 1.3gms that I use.
The book checks out at 1.7 gms per kg so what can we glean from that?
What formula are you using to find PPM ? That might help me understand where you are at
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
http://www.aussiecue.com.au

gnol
Posts: 1142
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:33 pm
Location: Werribee

Re: Bacon questions

Post by gnol » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:25 pm

All very interesting and it would be good to clarify exactly what amounts should be used.
As far as I can see if a book published in America where they have very strict guidelines about the use of nitrite has been allowed to be sold for so long with that recipe in it then it should be fine.

BUT
I have jus done a quick search and according to,the USDA which is responsible for the proper use of nitrites by meat processors the maximum allowed in a dry cure is 200 ppm. Now I am not sure if this is only on a commercial level or all levels.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsi ... y/CT_Index

Shayne, where are you getting these figures from? Not having a go. Just want to genuinely solve this.
BTW. I'm hopeless at maths.
Remember, studies have been carried out in the US and the max permissible Nitrite level in commercial Bacon has been fixed at 625ppm. I have not found any info on what the Aus standards are....... but trust the US research.

Smokey
Posts: 5958
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:47 pm
Location: Terranora- Tweed

Re: Bacon questions

Post by Smokey » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:56 pm

Guys, Lets move this down to the science room and thrash it out there. Im a true male ,,, Cant do two things at once. :roll: That and we are confusing the hell out readers wanting to have a go.
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
http://www.aussiecue.com.au

Nath
Posts: 2095
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:15 am
Location: Perth WA

Bacon questions

Post by Nath » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:51 am

Smokey Mick wrote:
Busio90 wrote:
Smokey Mick wrote:The lower temps are all well and good if you can achieve them. Otherwise just smoke it as I said @190F until its cooked.
Its just an easy way to get started and get a good result.

.
50g Mick, yer your right, I may just make up the correct amount for the belly I have.


Nath
Nath,After I asked that question I looked back and saw it was a little 50gm pack
Thats bugger all so I would go ahead with Gnols book recepie and use the pack.
Its a good mix and is all that I use and far as salt and sugar goes.
Just as long as you only use 23gms of your total mix per kg of belly you will be sweet.
My total mix per kg is 32 gms but I use a little less nitrite. But we are splitting hairs really.
The books recepie is a hot mix but not over the top.
With what you have left over you can play with the aromatics in each new bacon you do.
Good advice. Will make up a batch of basic cure and try some different aromats etc.


Nath
Nath

shayneh2006
Posts: 1914
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 5:34 pm
Location: Western Sydney

Re: Bacon questions

Post by shayneh2006 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:52 am

I am not getting this at all :roll:
gnol wrote:

Basic dry cure
1pound/450gm Kosher salt (I used shock horror "normal" salt)
8 ounces/225 gm sugar
2 ounces/50gm pink salt ( pink salt is a combination containing 93.75% salt and 6.25% sodium nitrite) which is what you are getting by the sounds of it.

NOW

For every 5 pounds/2.25kg of meat you use 2 ounces/50 grams of the basic cure.
So for example if I have 2x1kg piece I will use about 22-23gms per 1 kg.
I cant understand why the need to use so much,,,,,, when its not needed :roll: Those levels are dangerous :roll:


Busio90 wrote: Image
Alarm bells shold be ringing about now...

Naths pack (@ 6.25%) clearly shows that bugger all is needed to get the job done :wink: .

Their ratios are weaker than what I [email protected] 120ppm.

My mix finishes at 158ppm

Here they are showing us that you only need 1.93 grams of cure to treat 1kg of meat. I will add as well, that these quantities are for the use in a wet pickle so the uptake will be much less than if applied by dry rubbing.

They are also saying that one 50gr pack will treat 25kgs of meat

Its not hard to understand.

Is everyone understanding what I am saying

This stuff can KILL you!!!!!


22-23gms of Cure#1 per 1 kg is down right crazy!!!!!!! :x

I think I read somewhere here that there was a mention of using the whole 50gr pack on a piece of belly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If done, would be down right suicide!!!!!!. :x

Do me a favour Nath.

Buy yourself a cheap digital pocket scale with accuracy to two decimal places, ie 0.00 grams. I got mine new off Ebay for around $15. This will enable you to measure the small qauntaties needed with accuracy.

Take notes of what you are doing.

Most importantly, stay alive



Shayne
Image

Don't argue with idiots.. They'll bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.

Nath
Posts: 2095
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:15 am
Location: Perth WA

Bacon questions

Post by Nath » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:10 pm

shayneh2006 wrote:I am not getting this at all :roll:
gnol wrote:

Basic dry cure
1pound/450gm Kosher salt (I used shock horror "normal" salt)
8 ounces/225 gm sugar
2 ounces/50gm pink salt ( pink salt is a combination containing 93.75% salt and 6.25% sodium nitrite) which is what you are getting by the sounds of it.

NOW

For every 5 pounds/2.25kg of meat you use 2 ounces/50 grams of the basic cure.
So for example if I have 2x1kg piece I will use about 22-23gms per 1 kg.
I cant understand why the need to use so much,,,,,, when its not needed :roll: Those levels are dangerous :roll:


Busio90 wrote: Image
Alarm bells shold be ringing about now...

Naths pack (@ 6.25%) clearly shows that bugger all is needed to get the job done :wink: .

Their ratios are weaker than what I [email protected] 120ppm.

My mix finishes at 158ppm

Here they are showing us that you only need 1.93 grams of cure to treat 1kg of meat. I will add as well, that these quantities are for the use in a wet pickle so the uptake will be much less than if applied by dry rubbing.

They are also saying that one 50gr pack will treat 25kgs of meat

Its not hard to understand.

Is everyone understanding what I am saying

This stuff can KILL you!!!!!


22-23gms of Cure#1 per 1 kg is down right crazy!!!!!!! :x

I think I read somewhere here that there was a mention of using the whole 50gr pack on a piece of belly,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,If done, would be down right suicide!!!!!!. :x

Do me a favour Nath.

Buy yourself a cheap digital pocket scale with accuracy to two decimal places, ie 0.00 grams. I got mine new off Ebay for around $15. This will enable you to measure the small qauntaties needed with accuracy.

Take notes of what you are doing.

Most importantly, stay alive



Shayne
Thanks shayne. Everyone is confusing the fudge out of me. I think what Gnol is using is 22-23g of the BASIC CURE per kg. Which the whole batch contains 50g of cure#1. He is not using 22-23g of cure #1 per kg


Nath
Nath

Nath
Posts: 2095
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:15 am
Location: Perth WA

Bacon questions

Post by Nath » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:39 pm

shayneh2006 wrote:Fellas,,,,,,,

Everything here is getting mixed up

The facts...........

Sodium Nitrite has been proven to cause Bowel Cancer :shock: . If used correctly, its harmless but on the other hand, excessive amount consumed can be harmfull.


Right......



There is no need to use excessive levels of cure #1

It will do your health more harm than good.
gnol wrote:keep it simple to start with.
as mentioned earlier I use the methods printed in the book Chacauterie and have had no problems so far.
Gnol, don't trust what the book says....


Gnol, and can you tell what's going on inside your body.... I had a look at your recipe and its still hits high on Nitrite levels. 1440mgs of pure in that recipe..... that finishes at 1440 ppm :shock: .

Remember, studies have been carried out in the US and the max permissible Nitrite level in commercial Bacon has been fixed at 625ppm. I have not found any info on what the Aus standards are....... but trust the US research.

All I can say is do your research before messing with this stuff.


"THERE IS NO NEED TO USE MORE THAN WHATS REQUIRED TO GET THE JOB DONE"

Below you will see my Bacon recipe, that falls well below as what the US call as the max

The dry rub....

Salt = 22.6 grams
Sugar = 12.2 grams
Cure# 1= 3.1 grams total which equates to 193.75 milligrams of pure Nitrite

Then I added a few tsp of Maple syrup.

The belly weight was 1220 grams

To end up with this.......

Image


A totally cured Pork belly, that had the best flavor I have ever experienced in Bacon.

This batch finished at 158ppm, and well below what I said earlier on :wink: .

Use my recipe, do the maths and break it down to reflect on the weight your piece is.......

Otherwise, I will not advise any further,, your health is in your own hands.


Shayne
Is this your recipe quantities you use per 1000g of meat??
If not it would be handy if you could post your recipe based on 1000g of meat for easy calculations for us noobs.


Nath
Nath


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