Bread making 101

PIZZAS, BREADS, CAKES & DESERTS ON BBQ
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chrisg
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Bread making 101

Post by chrisg »

Hmm,

Nath asked if I could post something, I think about the basics of bread making, in some other thread.

Looking around I think I might be teaching grandma to suck eggs, some great recipes have been posted, but maybe some of the real basics might be what is being looked for ?

I've been baking bread most of my life, when I was a kid I'd run up the mix in the bowl and dad would do the kneading. You can always cheat of course and use a dough hook or a bread maker, even if you only use the latter to knead before playing with shapes etc. I have one, but if there is time then kneading by hand does in my opinion make for better bread, it's also very therapeutic :)

I used to teach an elective on bread making years ago in a small country town, the kids produced some great stuff - once they got over the shock that bread need not come pre-sliced in plastic from the supermarket with the texture of fairy floss :)

So, let's just go with the real basics.

First, there are exceptions especially with flat breads and pizza bases but as a general rule everything in bread making is made easier and more successful by having everything warm, the bowl, the rolling pin if you use one, the surface you knead on, even the flour. A lot of people keep flour in the fridge, which is not so silly but let it get warm before using it.

About the best bowl in my opinion to use for bread making is one I've seen in a number of pics on the forum, the big beige on the outside white on the inside relatively heavy pottery country kitchen ones that you can get most anywhere. Their weight is useful to knead in the bowl especially if you choose to do all the kneading in the bowl, which I often do, and if you pour in some boiling water and discard after a few seconds the pottery holds heat well. Most of those bowls have a flat on one side, again great to tilt the bowl towards you whilst you knead.

On that note the key thing is warm, not super hot with bread.

Yeast activates best in a warm environment but too much heat can kill it.

Which brings me to yeast itself.

The commonest form of yeast is active dry. It's very convenient, keeps well, especially in the freezer and you can get it at most any supermarket. It is however one of the very few things that if I haven't used it by the "best by" date I chuck it, the last thing you want is inactive yeast if you want well risen bread.

Less common is compressed yeast, it's great if you can find it, doesn't keep nearly as long and the same chuck it out rule applies. This link is an interesting quick read on the difference.

http://blog.bobsredmill.com/featured-ar ... sed-yeast/

Last is fresh yeast, which can be a chore to find. Some of the bakery places will sell it to you, in the country town where I taught this stuff there was a commercial bakery, they used to give it to me for the classes. Some health shops sell it as well. It doesn't keep long at all, needs to be kept in the fridge if you are not using it immediately and whilst I know some people who freeze it it never to me seems to be as "strong" after thawing. However for the best rise it is difficult to beat and there most certainly is a difference in flavor. (In one of the threads here someone suggested get your yeast from the bottom of a long neck of Coopers Sparkling Ale, never tried that but if you have a good brewery nearby they also will give you yeast sometimes.)

Just remember with yeast, you do not need much of it, best to buy it as you need it.

I cream my yeast in a small pre-warmed glass bowl. You simply sprinkle the yeast over about 100ml of warm water or milk depending upon the recipe. Yeast needs a bit of food, sugar. Purists say fresh yeast does not need it, I tend to disagree but only a 1/8th to a 1/4 of a teaspoon, dried yeast up to a teaspoon. Compressed yeast follow the packaging, some already have sugar in them. Too much sugar can kill the yeast so err on the side of caution. It is ready when it has frothed up to a decent head, usually about 15 minutes.

Which brings us to flour.

For bread you need a good "strong" flour, which as much as anything means high in gluten. What kneading does is stretch the gluten out into sheets as well as thoroughly combine everything so simple plain flour is not going to make spectacularly good bread.

These days most supermarkets carry bread flour and if you have a more specialised bread supply shop you will find a wide variety of choices. Really what you use is governed by the recipe beyond simple white bread. If you can find it a flour called Atta is ideal for most purposes, it's a very fine traditional flour, stone ground from whole wheat. Most Asian food stores will have it, it is the flour of choice for flat breads but really can be used for anything. Atta is very high in gluten which is part of why it is so good for bread.

Spelt is another alternative, not made from wheat but still has plenty of gluten.

Flour varies widely in how much liquid it absorbs so in any recipe the amount of liquid should be used as a guide only, if the dough seems too dry, not picking up all the flour from the bowl or kneading surface then extra liquid is needed, often just wetting your hands a couple of times as you knead will make all the difference. Sometimes a dough can be too wet, then it depends again on the recipe, some breads are meant to be from a wet dough but if not then flouring your hands as you knead will again produce the dough you are after.

Sweet breads aside most all bread recipes include salt otherwise the bread will be pretty tasteless.

An optional trick with bread making that was very useful in the classroom is to add half a tablet of un-flavoured vitamin C to the flour, grind it up fine in a mortar and pestle.

Traditional bread needs to be kneaded twice, first once all the ingredients are combined then left aside to rise before knocking it back, flattening it and kneading again. The reason for this is to consume the vast majority of the yeast as it produces the carbon dioxide that makes the bread rise. Otherwise the yeast flavor will be too strong and bitter.

The vitamin C trick consumes the yeast faster so the dough only needs to rise once. I've never noticed any difference in flavor at all and of course in the class it saved time, but it's up to you as the bread maker :)

Once kneaded if proving twice the dough goes back into the floured bowl, cover with a damp tea towel and put it somewhere warm to rise, remember not too hot, once or twice for the rise, or proving, depends on the above.

Bread shaping depends upon what style of loaf you are after and if you are knocking back or not.

Either way shaping is after the final knead. If making simple loaves you need bread tins and the dough raises in them, if making a more free-form loaf, such as a cottage or perhaps a plait then a simple baking sheet is all you need, shape and let the bread prove on it but again covered with a damp tea towel. This prevents a dry crust forming on the dough at this stage. Dust the tins or sheet with flour to make the loaf easy to remove. Some bakers use baking paper, I never have.

On a cool day a very good place to prove dough is in the back of the car, just don't have the aircon on :)

Finally, once risen, typically 30 minutes, it varies up to an hour, the bread goes in the oven. For the first 20 to 25 minutes the oven needs to be very hot 220C, this kills any remaining yeast.

Be guided by the recipe from there, some will reduce the heat, some not.

Bread is cooked when it sounds hollow when you knock on the bottom.

Those are the basics.

Before going into the oven you may want to add a glaze. That's pretty much always the case if making bread rolls because they cook quicker but for full loaves it is better to glaze after 25 minutes otherwise it can become too dark. Glazes can be salted water, butter, cream, beaten egg, milk, again be guided by the recipe.

I think I'll finish for now with a recipe that amused the hell out of me, it is called "Amish White Bread," my wife found it on Facebook.

Ingredients, 2 cups warm water, 1/2 cup of sugar, 1 1/2 tbsp active dry yeast, 1 1/2tsp salt, 1/4 cup of oil, 6 cups of flour.

The method is to place the warm water in an electric mixer, dissolve the sugar, then the yeast, let it foam then add the mixed salt and oil. Using a dough hook mix in the flour one cup at a time. The dough forms into a ball that pulls away from the bowl. At that stage it is placed in a well oiled bowl, turning to coat with oil, covered and follows the prove, knock back, into oiled bread tins, allowed to rise again and then baked for 25 to 30 minutes at 350F.

I've never made it, can't see how it would fail, not with that much yeast and sugar, more likely be forcing it back into the oven with a shotgun :)

But, I wonder how many Amish would have an electric mixer? :)

Recipes are something to be a little careful of sometimes.

A great book, only a small one, that I mentioned in the thread that led to this is "Use Your Loaf" Derek and Ursel Norman. I've tried every single recipe in it over the years with great results only modified by using the Vitamin C method sometimes.

That do Nath?

I can try to answer questions or describe more techniques, or I'm sure there are some great bakers around on the forum that can do so at least as well as I can :)

Cheers
beachbums
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Re: Bread making 101

Post by beachbums »

Great post Chris. I'm sure it will be a lot of help to those of us that struggle with baking.


Cheers, Wayne
Nath
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Bread making 101

Post by Nath »

Chris. Absolutely Awsome post mate! Some great tips. I'll Definately be increasing how often I bake. And hopefully improve my results.
I actually baked a couple of loaves yesterday, and for the first time was more happy with the result. A better "uneven" texture. Still need to work on the slashing and crust


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Nath
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Bread making 101

Post by Nath »

Image
Image
Image

I used an overnight polish and fresh yeast.
This is the only bread I've made that didn't have a dense feel too it


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chrisg
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Re: Bread making 101

Post by chrisg »

:)

If you use those unglazed clay baking dishes and even know about "poolish" Nath then either you have been reading a lot more than baking or something is just plain not right because that is usually one damned good combination :)

What were you aiming for there? Looks on the way to ciabatta but I wouldn't bother to use the dishes for that, get the prep right and ciabatta is best on a plain ol' sheet.

If you want more crust, and who doesn't? It's easiest to achieve with a simple spray bottle of very salty water. Give the loaves 20 odd minutes in the oven to stabilise, spray them and don't turn the heat down, then spray a few more times - same as with some hood Q really, keep the heat in and do a quick draw :) Easier to shoot if there is no dish in the way :)

Bread is not something you can do with low and slow, high and high or high and a little less is best :)

When did you do the slashes?

I've seen a lot of conflicting advice on that, for me it always works best with deep slashes when the dough is ready for the last, or if using Vit.C the only rise. Before it rises at all. Looks like you are almost cutting the dough clean through but so long as the dough is moist enough it melds back as it rises. Oh... SHARP knife, tears reduce the affect.

Anything to do with being too dense says not enough rise/prove. That's a big variable in bread baking because the ambient has an influence, temperature and humidity. There's a second variable as well, how long the yeast continues to produce CO2 in the oven before it dies. There is also the flour and freshness of the yeast as well.

I know my bread is going to be really good when what I put in the dish or lay on a tray is pushing up at the tea towel to about 5 or more times the size it was before it goes in the oven. That can be pushing it, all about the feel, don't want collapse - it's cooking not the lab :)

It's very variable, again conditions, but the ingredients as well, most especially the flour.

Once I didn't really take much notice of sifting the flour, had dense bread. It is important, gets air in there. I'm no fan of those handbrake sifters though, through a sieve, tap it with a wooden spoon, decent height above the bowl. (It's sort of the opposite of pouring a hot cup of tea, never a good idea from on high :) )

Don't think me presumptuous ok?

Maybe you need to walk a little and get simpler recipes just right ?

If you get that book I mentioned try the Vienna, real easy, very satisfying.

Don't scorn the Vit.C method either, it's not all about time, if like most of us you end up baking as the temperature is falling getting the rise asap is going to produce better bread with no downside that I've ever seen or tasted.

I didn't talk much about kneading in the post, but within reason it cannot be overdone. I quite often get bruises in the welt between my thumb and forefinger, baker mate of mine once just said "yep" :)

I think that is also why my mother has always maintained that men are better at bread, more strength. ( A few female friends of mine might disagree :) )

My mother can make a cake to die for but her bread almost, almost, put me off the whole concept, kneading is not her strong point, never could have been a masseuse :)

I'm messing around with the buttery doughs next weekend, not made for a bit, probably need to climb the learning curve again, let alone moving to the bbq for heat :)

Thanks BB, I still think there are more experienced/better bakers here :)

Cheers
Nath
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Bread making 101

Post by Nath »

Haven't used unglazed clay baking dishes. Those were just rattan baskets (brotforms) that I used for the second rise.

Wasn't really aiming for a ciabatta but it's kind of how it turned out.

I think if I let the second rise for longer, I would have had a taller loaf, though I ran out of time and had to throw them in the kamado.

The scoring I did after turning out of the brotforms just before baking.


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Nath
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Bread making 101

Post by Nath »

Ow and I don't have a sifter. Next one I'll sift


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Nath
Meat and eat
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Re: Bread making 101

Post by Meat and eat »

Excellent post chrisg, thanks.

Would love to hear your take on pizza doughs.

Cheers

Meat and eat
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chrisg
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Re: Bread making 101

Post by chrisg »

:)

Ah !!! That's what they are Nath !! :)

Not all recipes mention to sift the flour but it really does make a difference and definitely score the dough before the final rise. Can't comment on kamado's and bread, don't have one :)

There are some fabulous takes on pizza on here M&e, not sure what I can add really.

Maybe a couple of things.

i posted a while ago about my first pizzas in the Q, haven't posted more because I haven't done any that were different since :) In that post I mentioned that I actually learned how to make pizza in Italy but even there the methods for dough vary a lot and pizza keeps evolving.

First though there really is no need for a rolling pin, picking the dough up and letting its own weight stretch it whilst rotating it is the way to go, makes for a much better base, I'd guess it's because rolling doesn't really stretch the gluten the way the traditional method does.

Second nearly all commercial pizzas seem to be made on pre-baked bases and being able to buy those plus just using flat bread which some do, me included if I'm in a hurry, encourages that.

"Real" pizza though and I'm sure some of those I've seen on here are the case, the hot sauce is spread on the dough before the second rise, including the cheese. It makes, in my opinion, for the best pizzas, the heat of the sauce quickens the rise and the sauce integrates more with the bread plus the edge rises to envelop the sauce. Completely different to the bread with sauce on top which has become the norm.

You don't eat that with your fingers of course, definitely knife and fork :)

For finger food I've also mentioned somewhere that in Italy you can buy pizza pies from roadside vans, those look somewhat like a Cornish pasty. Really it's a small pizza folded over and the edge sealed. Something like a calzone but not really, much less filling.

Those are made with unbaked dough as well, of course, and a combination of being small and high heat plus the sauce being already cooked means they cook quickly, turned half way.

It's Italian cooking though, that's the way I saw them cooked by one family of van owners who befriended me, I'll bet elsewhere others have different ideas.

Pizza really is different everywhere you go, mostly the New York influence I'd suspect but every country seems to have a different take.

What I can tell you is that Atta flour is fabulous for making pizzas.

Cheers
Nath
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Bread making 101

Post by Nath »

Did a whole meal loaf in the 320 today.
Turned out better.
The dough was a lot less hydrated. And only a quick double rise.
I feel the Q320 held the steam a bit better and helped with the oven spring. Will post is what the crumb looks like when I cut
Image


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chrisg
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Re: Bread making 101

Post by chrisg »

Hmm,

Looks good to me.

Whilst steam baked bread is what produces that horrible pap they sell in supermarkets steam is very good for giving a deeper crispy crust.

When making french loaves I usually put a shallow pan of salt water in the bottom of the oven, it will all evaporate in the time the loaves are going through first baking stage but the crust is superb.

Cheers
Smokey
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Re: Bread making 101

Post by Smokey »

Great thread Chris,
One bread I enjoy is Turkish bread, I've had a go a few times and have come close but nothing like what I can buy in town from the Turkish baker.
With those tips above I'm inspired give it another go.
First thing I'll do is grab the Atta flour.
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
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chrisg
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Re: Bread making 101

Post by chrisg »

:)

Thanks Mick.

Pide or Turkish bread should come out really well in a BBQ, it's not unlike Pizza in some ways, best cooked on a stone. The traditional method is on hot rocks.

Atta will work really well for it, hope you can find some :)

Cheers
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