Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

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DaveW
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Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by DaveW »

Hi all,

I currently have some picked pork in the kamado. It hasn't been in long and I added some Jack Daniels pellets through the front chip feeder hole in the Royal. They smoked for about 5 minutes pretty hard, so I have decided to just keep adding them at a trickle.

Bbq temp is sitting at 185, meat temp is at 30 and slowly climbing.

I know the pork won't absorb the smoke after a certain temp, but for maximum effect when am I best off trickling them in? Right at the start when the meat is its coldest, or wait a while until it hits 50 or so?

These JD pellets cost a small fortune so I'd prefer not to waste them :)

Cheers,

Dave
DaveW

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dales133
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Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by dales133 »

Beaver wrote:can i suggest a tip

use wood blocks or chips (if on a weber or kamado)
you soak them for 3-4 days and then put them in a freezer.

the moisture in them keeps them in "optimal" smoking range so that you dont have them smoke up in 2-3 seconds flat.

the other thing you want to do is use pouches in different sections (so that they go off like timed smoke bombs)

meat will absorb smoke best in the first 1-2 hours of cooking but more smoke isnt always better

Either that or use big chunks they tend to smoulder away slowly, I use stuff I foraged myself or the weber brand chunks and if there big I don't bother soaking.
I also cut my wood up with my little chainsaw and I cut them over a plastic tub and throw the odd handful on once in a while, beavers right they go up pretty quick but I'm just using the saw chips for a flavour burs , most of the smoke comes from the chunks.
Basicly I can't be bothered soaking and this works for me.
Pellets are a waste of money using them the way you are when chips or chunks are half the cost and chainsaw chips are free
DaveW
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Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by DaveW »

Sorry lads, I should have explained better. I have hickory chunks that I could have put on at the start, but my fam doesn't really like a massive smoke taste so I'm trying to find a happy medium without going overboard. I'm making it (well, attempting to) smokier little by little every time and getting them used to it.
I'm fairly happy with how it turned out. Smoke flavour was strong but not too strong for the mrs and tin lids.
The relatively small amount of pellets that went on early did the trick nicely.
DaveW

Proud owner of 'Red Mist' Royal Kamado, 'The Green Imp' Sakura Imperial Kamado 'circa 1970 and a Weber GA that, well....... goes anywhere! :D

Never get so busy making a living that you forget to make a life!
dales133
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Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by dales133 »

Yea my kids are the same, just use I soaked chips sparingly then, it's what I do for them
peteoz77
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by peteoz77 »

My wife "Hates" the taste of smoke, so when I am just about done burning her chops (Grrrr) I take them off to rest, toss my steak on, throw 2 tiny sticks of Pear Wood on the coals and give her 5 on each side. I end up with a nice smoky taste and the wife gets hers without. Sure I could do a lot of different things, but the smoke I get in 10 minutes is blood nice, and certainly better than nothing at all.
Commander Cody
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by Commander Cody »

sorry i got in late on this one,

when you use pellets as a smoke source,

make a pocket out of foil, like, fold it a couple of times, then seal up the sides by folding in the edges, then fold up the bottom a couple of times.

now............you only need to put in about, i think from memory it is 2/3 cup, leave enough room in said pocket to breath the pellets. fold down top, prick 2 or 3 holes in foil and place directly over the fire.

this should give you smoke for about 20 mins to 1/2hr

kevin
....up in smoke.....that's where my money goes.....
Spode
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by Spode »

Smoke sits on the outside, but a smoke ring will form up to about 160def F (meat temperature). Some say the smoke stops being absorbed then too. So 160deg F is when it stops either way. If I am going to foil, I do it then.
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Richtee
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by Richtee »

OK, there seems to still be a certain amount of confusion about the amount of "smokiness" imparted to the food in a smoker, and temps.

The 140°F mark is the point where the protein myoglobin will start to denature, and will no longer "cure" or change color with additional NO (nitrous oxide) from the smoke. This stops the formation of the smoke ring.

It does NOT stop the ability of food to take on additional flavor from the smoke however.

On edit: And yes, moisture in the initial phase of the smoking process WILL increase the rate of smoke ring formation

The above is scientific fact. The below is my observations/opinion:

The smoke ring is said not to impart much flavor, but in fact it MUST impart some change in flavor, as it's actually a cure in the first 1/4" or so of the food. In a brisket or butt, this would matter little, but in ribs, it will result in a more "hammy" flavor.

An addendum for you electric unit users- the reason you have little or no smoke ring when using your units is addressed in the last paragraph below. Although apparently burning a chunk of lump in the pan will contribute to the ring formation.


Below is a paper referring to some of the info I have presented.
----------------

Smoke Ring in Barbeque Meats
How to Get That Coveted Pink Ring With Your Cooking
by Joe Cordray

Slow cooked barbecue meats often exhibit a pink ring around the outside edge of the product. This pink ring may range from 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch thick. In beef the ring is a reddish-pink and in pork, chicken and turkey it is bright pink. This pink ring is often referred to as a "smoke ring" and is considered a prized attribute in many barbecue meats, especially barbecue beef briskets. Barbecue connoiseurs feel the presence of a smoke ring indicates the item was slow smoked for a long period of time. Occasionally consumers have mistakenly felt that the pink color of the smoke ring meant the meat was undercooked. To understand smoke ring formation you must first understand muscle pigment.

Myoglobin is the pigment that gives muscle its color. Beef muscle has more pigment than pork muscle thus beef has a darker color than pork. Chicken thighs have a darker color than chicken breast thus chicken thigh muscle has more muscle pigment (myoglobin) than chicken breast tissue. A greater myoglobin concentration yields a more intense color. When you first cut into a muscle you expose the muscle pigment in its native state, myoglobin. In the case of beef, myoglobin has a purplish-red color. After the myoglobin has been exposed to oxygen for a short time, it becomes oxygenated and oxymyoglobin is formed. Oxymyoglobin is the color we associate with fresh meat. The optimum fresh meat color in beef is bright cherry red and in pork bright grayish pink. If a cut of meat is held under refrigeration for several days, the myoglobin on the surface becomes oxidized. When oxymyoglobin is oxidized it becomes metmyoglobin. Metmyoglobin has a brown color and is associated with a piece of meat that has been cut for several days. When we produce cured products we also alter the state of the pigment myoglobin. Cured products are defined as products to which we add sodium nitrate and/or sodium nitrite during processing. Examples of cured products are ham, bacon, bologna and hotdogs. All of these products have a pink color, which is typical of cured products. When sodium nitrite is combined with meat the pigment myoglobin is converted to nitric oxide myoglobin which is a very dark red color. This state of the pigment myoglobin is not very stable. Upon heating, nitric oxide myoglobin is converted to nitrosylhemochrome, which is the typical pink color of cured meats.
When a smoke ring develops in barbecue meats it is not because smoke has penetrated and colored the muscle, but rather because gases in the smoke interact with the pigment myoglobin. Two phenomenon provide evidence that it is not the smoke itself that causes the smoke ring. First, it is possible to have a smoke ring develop in a product that has not been smoked and second, it is also possible to heavily smoke a product without smoke ring development.

Most barbecuers use either wood chips or logs to generate smoke when cooking. Wood contains large amounts of nitrogen (N). During burning the nitrogen in the logs combines with oxygen (O) in the air to form nitrogen dioxide (NO2). Nitrogen dioxide is highly water-soluble. The pink ring is created when NO2 is absorbed into the moist meat surface and reacts to form nitrous acid. The nitrous acid then diffuses inward creating a pink ring via the classic meat curing reaction of sodium nitrite. The end result is a "smoke ring" that has the pink color of cured meat. Smoke ring also frequently develops in smokehouses and cookers that are gas-fired because NO2 is a combustion by-product when natural gas or propane is burned.

Let’s review the conditions that would help to contribute to the development of a smoke ring. Slow cooking and smoking over several hours. This allows time for the NO2 to be absorbed into and interact with the meat pigment.

Maintain the surface of the meat moist during smoking. NO2 is water-soluble so it absorbs more readily into a piece of meat that has a moist surface than one which has a dry surface. Meats that have been marinated tend to have a moister surface than non-marinated meats. There are also a couple of ways that you can help to maintain a higher humidity level in your cooker; 1. Do not open and close the cooker frequently. Each time you open it you allow moisture inside to escape. 2. Put a pan of water on your grill. Evaporation from the water will help increase humidity inside the cooker.

Generate smoke from the burning of wood chips or wood logs. Since NO2 is a by-product of incomplete combustion, green wood or wetted wood seems to enhance smoke ring development. Burning green wood or wetted wood also helps to increase the humidity level inside the cooker.
A high temperature flame is needed to create NO2 from nitrogen and oxygen. A smoldering fire without a flame does not produce as much NO2. Consequently, a cooker that uses indirect heat generated from the burning of wood typically will develop a pronounced smoke ring. Have fun cooking. A nice smoke ring can sure make a piece of barbecued meat look attractive.

About the Author:

Joe Cordray is the Meat Extension Specialist at Iowa State University’s nationally renowned Meat Lab, located in Ames, IA. He has been writing for The BBQer since Fall of 2001
urbangriller
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by urbangriller »

In addition, the start temperature of the meat is a factor as well, contrary to the “rules” for grilling, it is best to have the meat you are wanting to smoke as cold as you can at the start.

See the work of Dr Greg Blonder: http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesInd ... icles.html


Chris
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Davo
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by Davo »

urbangriller wrote:In addition, the start temperature of the meat is a factor as well, contrary to the “rules” for grilling, it is best to have the meat you are wanting to smoke as cold as you can at the start.

See the work of Dr Greg Blonder: http://www.genuineideas.com/ArticlesInd ... icles.html


Chris
Chris, what a brilliant article...one of the best I've read for some time...thankyou......given that his test shows that a wet item would show more smoke colour which I found fascinating, I'm going to smoke 6 chicken thigh bone -in and skin -on pieces this arvo and I think I might just spray 3 of them with a fine mist of water and leave the other 3 dry or maybe with a light spray of rice bran oil.....now I'll eventually put a finishing sauce onto these pieces but before I do, I'll photograph them as they are for comparison then again when I open one up to see what the smoke ring is like.

I'll try and post the results here with a pic or two

cheers

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urbangriller
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by urbangriller »

Cool Davo.

That'd also be why brined meats smoke so well!

Do some cold and some warm as well!

Chris
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Davo
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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by Davo »

Ok...I've got 6 chicken thigh bone-in and skin on thigh pieces that I shall put on the performer...

The 3 on the left have been just sprayed with water from the time they hit the grill and sprayed every 15 minutes and the 3 on the right were sprayed with ricebran oil.
Image

About 90 minutes into the smoking session at about 280F but it started on about 330F and finished on about 250F...was in a little hurry as it was getting late.I couldn't see any difference in the browning between the 2 groups of 3. Hickory chunks were used for the smoke.
Image

So I'm now not too sure on that theory about smoke sticking to a wet surface because I tried to keep the left 3 wet at all times and the right 3 with oil spray.....the chicken had also not long come out of the fridge and although I didn't take any pics of smoke ring, it's because there really wasn't any.
I might also add that even though the temp was a bit up in the beginning, the chicken was on the grill for nearly 3 hours with no noticeable difference and I was getting the "hurry up, I'm hungry" cue :lol:
They were bloody delicious though :P

Cheers

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Re: Optimum meat temp to absorb smoke?

Post by Davo »

Beaver wrote:3 possible explanations.

1. waterpan would have kept the cooker a moist environment
Yeah didn't use a pan for this but I don't think it'd make much diff for the time involved
2. fat is a natural barrier to stop smoke penetration
Yes...I'd probably agree with this brett...the skin and the fat underneath could have stopped the penetration.....might try it with skinless one day.
3. they cooked a little too fast for the smoke ring to appear (maybe)
Possibly not if they were skinless....I had to be careful to not have the chicken linger too long in the danger zone

Most important though was they tasted smokey and were very moist and delicious and didn't last long :mrgreen:
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