The great steak dilemma

Narmnaleg · Post by **Narmnaleg** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:08 pm

pierre wrote:the pan is probably better than the common, flat aussie bbq, the oil in the pan is a no no because it will make lots of smoke, it's better to oil the meat, of course we can say I like it like I like it but that kills any kind of discussion

As long as you can stand an argument there's no problem. What is a "flat aussie BBQ"? Do you mean a hotplate? I don't think that's an Aussie invention, but anyway can you explain why it's worse than a pan? My oil doesn't smoke when I'm making schnitzel... If my oil doesn't smoke is it still a no no? Why? If I have to agree because it's "just not done like that" then fine, that kills any kind of discussion.

Narmnaleg · Post by **Narmnaleg** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:11 pm

Gumb wrote:I wonder if he's heard about bbq with the lid down

He doesn't sound like a newbie, but anything is possible I guess...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heston_Blumenthal

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:48 pm

pierre wrote:the pan is probably better than the common, flat aussie bbq, the oil in the pan is a no no because it will make lots of smoke, it's better to oil the meat, of course we can say I like it like I like it but that kills any kind of discussion

Depends on what kind of oil is used?
If you oil the meat, rather than the pan, it will still make contact with the pan when you put the meat in? So still smoke?

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pierre · Post by **pierre** » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:59 pm

Nath wrote:
pierre wrote:the pan is probably better than the common, flat aussie bbq, the oil in the pan is a no no because it will make lots of smoke, it's better to oil the meat, of course we can say I like it like I like it but that kills any kind of discussion
Depends on what kind of oil is used?
If you oil the meat, rather than the pan, it will still make contact with the pan when you put the meat in? So still smoke?

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I have tried both the oil in the pan smokes more, I don't know why I just cook I am not a scientist. It's easy to try both and see.

pierre · Post by **pierre** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:08 am

Narmnaleg wrote:
pierre wrote:the pan is probably better than the common, flat aussie bbq, the oil in the pan is a no no because it will make lots of smoke, it's better to oil the meat, of course we can say I like it like I like it but that kills any kind of discussion
As long as you can stand an argument there's no problem. What is a "flat aussie BBQ"? Do you mean a hotplate? I don't think that's an Aussie invention, but anyway can you explain why it's worse than a pan? My oil doesn't smoke when I'm making schnitzel... If my oil doesn't smoke is it still a no no? Why? If I have to agree because it's "just not done like that" then fine, that kills any kind of discussion.

Well I said probably, and I should have specified I meant one of those $100 hotplate not a Weber. Yet I'm not the only one who said he doesn't like his steak cooked in a pan.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:19 am

pierre wrote:
Nath wrote:
pierre wrote:the pan is probably better than the common, flat aussie bbq, the oil in the pan is a no no because it will make lots of smoke, it's better to oil the meat, of course we can say I like it like I like it but that kills any kind of discussion
Depends on what kind of oil is used?
If you oil the meat, rather than the pan, it will still make contact with the pan when you put the meat in? So still smoke?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have tried both the oil in the pan smokes more, I don't know why I just cook I am not a scientist. It's easy to try both and see.

I agree, what I meant is the type of oil used will play a huge role. Olive oil had quite a low smoke point, rice bran oil for instance has a lot higher smoke point.

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pierre · Post by **pierre** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:26 am

I usually use canola or sunflower oil, for stir fries I have tried peanut oil but it always smokes a lot even if I read it shouldn't. I do not want to convince anyone to change their habits. Another reason I like to brush oil on the meat is because salt and pepper will stick to the surface and the salt will melt in the process of cooking.

Narmnaleg · Post by **Narmnaleg** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:34 am

pierre wrote:Yet I'm not the only one who said he doesn't like his steak cooked in a pan.

I know Pierre. I think the majority of the forum would feel the same about the pan. I myself am not saying the pan is better, but what I meant was that since I haven't tried that method and it comes from a reputable source, I might try it before I poo poo it

My question was honestly just looking for an answer so that I could learn something. When I make schnitzel the oil doesn't smoke, so I guess it would be similar for a steak, but I guess I won't know till I try it. So the next question was, if my oil doesn't smoke is there another reason why the oil would degrade the flavour?

pierre · Post by **pierre** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:46 am

Narmnaleg wrote:
pierre wrote:Yet I'm not the only one who said he doesn't like his steak cooked in a pan.
I know Pierre. I think the majority of the forum would feel the same about the pan. I myself am not saying the pan is better, but what I meant was that since I haven't tried that method and it comes from a reputable source, I might try it before I poo poo it
My question was honestly just looking for an answer so that I could learn something. When I make schnitzel the oil doesn't smoke, so I guess it would be similar for a steak, but I guess I won't know till I try it. So the next question was, if my oil doesn't smoke is there another reason why the oil would degrade the flavour?

Maybe the breadcrumbs absorb the oil and the plain meat doesn't I don't know. The thing about the flavour it's not much about the oil but to the pan itself even if with some Scanpan grill I wasn't totally unhappy in the past. The problem started when I first grilled steaks on charcoal

Narmnaleg · Post by **Narmnaleg** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:52 am

pierre wrote:Maybe the breadcrumbs absorb the oil and the plain meat doesn't I don't know. The thing about the flavour it's not much about the oil but to the pan itself even if with some Scanpan grill I wasn't totally unhappy in the past. The problem started when I first grilled steaks on charcoal

You know what, this has got me very intrigued.

I'm going to need to try this for myself. I want to try a reverse sear followed by a pan and compare it with a reverse sear followed by a charcoal grillgrates grill. I might even try it without the reverse sear first just to test all the combinations (I'll be "forced" to eat 4 steaks, this testing might take me a few weeks). I'm interested to see if there is a better maillard on the standard grill or in the pan. Now the only question is: do I even have a pan for this?

pierre · Post by **pierre** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:01 am

Narmnaleg wrote:
pierre wrote:Maybe the breadcrumbs absorb the oil and the plain meat doesn't I don't know. The thing about the flavour it's not much about the oil but to the pan itself even if with some Scanpan grill I wasn't totally unhappy in the past. The problem started when I first grilled steaks on charcoal
You know what, this has got me very intrigued. I'm going to need to try this for myself. I want to try a reverse sear followed by a pan and compare it with a reverse sear followed by a charcoal grillgrates grill. I might even try it without the reverse sear first just to test all the combinations (I'll be "forced" to eat 4 steaks, this testing might take me a few weeks). I'm interested to see if there is a better maillard on the standard grill or in the pan. Now the only question is: do I even have a pan for this?

I assumed you already did some experiment like that in the past

Well let me know when you're done

Mixin · Post by **Mixin** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:25 am

Narmnaleg wrote:I must admit that's not what I got from the video at all. He says that the flipping allows the outside to stay hot enough to form a crust without overcooking the inside. I think he is intending to keep the heat mainly on the surface of the meat. I was thinking that this might be a really good method to use in conjunction with a reverse sear. What do you think?

I'm with you on this thought pattern.

I'm a convert to the reverse sear after first reading about it on here a few years back.
Prior to that I would "sear from cold" in the hot zone, and then let it cook to temp in the cool zone.

I turn it at least 3 times times during the sear - mainly to get the 90 degree cross-grill marks, but also so I don't put too much heat into the perfectly cooked centre. So basically I put it on the hot grill, then after 20 seconds or so, flip it onto an open section of the hot grill, then flip it over again (turning 90 degrees) back to the section of the grille I just had it on (which has reheated somewhat since it was on there), then again to finish the 2nd side with a 90 degree turn, and if it hasn't coloured enough, I'll do it twice more.

This way I end up with a nice sear, and still have the juicy pink centre.

Groovy Gorilla · Post by **Groovy Gorilla** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:43 am

If the oil was beef dripping you get massive beef flavour and a high smoke point. (210/275C depending on source)

http://www.skillsyouneed.com/ps/fats-oils.html

Bentley · Post by **Bentley** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:03 am

I am not a flip it many times kind of guy, but I used to be x mount of time at 45, then rotate 45°, x amount of time flip, x amount of time then rotate 45°...what I have heard for years, but always blew it off was...x amount of time at 45° flip, x amount of time at 45° flip...I don't think any of this is making sense....

Davo · Post by **Davo** » Wed Dec 24, 2014 9:48 am

American celebrity chef Adam Perry Lang is also an advocate of the constant flip on the grill (not sure how he does it in the pan) and his idea was that when you place a steak on the grill, you give it a good coating of oil first and oil the grill to stop the sticking, place the steak on the grill constantly seasoning it with salt, another layer of oil and flipping it constantly so that any juice of the meat will rise with the heat to the upper surface and before that happens, you flip it to keep the juices going from one side to the other keeping it within the meat.
He then makes a slurry of garlic, evoo, herbs like basil and parsely coursly chopped on a board......after taking it off the grill, not really worrying about resting the meat much, he slices the steak, swirls the peices in the slurry and eats it from the board....sort of like eating it from the grill instead of plating up. I've tried similar on my Weber performer grill and it's not bad at all...very juicy steak and the taste is to die for.

it's a similar process for the Japanese Yaki-Niku where you grill a thin slice of beef or pork, flipping many times to keep the cooking even, then quickly take it off the grill and dip it in sauce then eat. The meat will be grill charred, moist and tasty.
We have bought some Yaki Niku for tonight's dinner from the grill.....can't wait

Cheers

Davo

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