PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

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Davo
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Davo »

I'm going to have to have another good look at Cabramatta butchers, haven't been there for quite a while but it's on my train line about 15-20 mins away.

American and spares are the same, it's just what the butchers here call them. Pork spare ribs can also be the rasher style that is popular in the asian areas and comes off the belly.Those type of pork ribs are better off marinated and grilled whereas the American style is for low & slow (mostly)

As for brisket, I tried once with a supermarket brisket a long time ago (before i knew they were corned), smoked it for about 4-5 hors and it still was tasteless and bland so I never tried those again....time to have another go at it when i get some time.

I don't think that we'll ever get Aussie Butchers to make the cuts like in the USA and I also think that our cattle are killed too young to meet the demand so I think really we're just going to have to adapt with what's avail.

It'll be interesting to see when Costco opens their doors in Australia (Melb this month, Sydney next year) if they will be bringing over any American meat products and/or if requested, can they source them with firm orders.I'd say there'd be Aus Quarantine concerns but i have seen American meets here so we can get them.

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skuzy
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by skuzy »

Davo - post up some pics of what you got mate, lets compare sizes :P

Heres what i got on the wkend from various asian butchers:
RIbs $14.99kg
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"beef brisket" $6 kg
It is sold wrapped like this:
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Unwrapped:
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Side view:
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Let us know your feedback folks - very interested to know if the beef brisket being sold is one that can be used for smokes (i.e is this the same thing as the flats and points the U.S use?).

Havent been able to find nice thick ribs yet....
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infernooo
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by infernooo »

Thanks for that! Unfortunately that looks exactly like the meat I have been getting... not too much meat on the ribs (and they certainly don't weigh 1.5kg like one of the racks of spares in the US), and that brisket doesn't look like it weighs more than a few kilos and is quite thin in places.

Compare it to one of these from the US:

http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/brisketselect.html
http://www.virtualweberbullet.com/virtualbrisket.html
http://www.azbbqa.com/articles/brisket-trim.htm
http://bovine.unl.edu/bovine3D/eng/Show ... rimal_id=3
http://bovine.unl.edu/bovine3D/eng/Show ... 1056398623

Also look how much meat they get on the ribs:

http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp28 ... /007-5.jpg
http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt25 ... 1249795637
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v623/ ... G_0013.jpg
skuzy
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by skuzy »

you're right.. from memory the ribs only weighed somewhere between 700g - 900gish.. they really cut them right to the bone here.. which is a shame. I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for some meaty thick ribs tho.

With the brisket, you're right again.. it is pretty small.. but in saying that i has specifically asked the butcher for the smallest one - simply because ive got no idea on how to use this meat?? i dont even remember seeing it in my mums kitchen with all her various asian dishes!
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Davo
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Davo »

Skuzy,

Briskets here in Oz are generally corned and sold in supermarkets and butchers and are always rolled. I haven't had much to do with them to be honest but i did try to smoke one once in the OTS and i worked hard at it all bloody day trying to keep the temp low from morning to late afternoon and when i thought it was done, it was blacker than night time. I think the temp was around 75C (probably overcooked) so after resting, i sliced it and tried some and it was still the blandest bit of meat I've ever eaten....no taste as all and i was smoking that thing for a long time (can't remember how many hours) at about 250-280F.
So after all that disappointment, I fed it to the dogs (they didn't complain) and dialed for pizza delivery as I was so pissed off.....that was about 10 yrs ago in my early days learning about live fire and smoking.:lol:

I have read that if you buy a corned brisket, you soak it in water for a few hours to get the salt out but please don't quote me on that as I've never done it.

Maybe someone here can enlighten us about this method.

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Captain Cook
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Captain Cook »

I did a brisket for a BBQ comp, served it up with my Chilli and Mango BBQ sauce it was great but the Judges preferred more traditional BBQ tucker.
I figured then that it was no use serving good food to the Philistines.
I now don't bother competing that BBQ comp. They also wanted the competitors to sell food to the visitors which meant having special food handling procedures, it also opened up liability issues.
It was open to both Professional Catering Companies, Chefs and the Backyard Barbecue cook. They also did not follow any generally accepted entry and judging criteria or categories.

Brisket really does lend itself to slow cooking so the fat renders down. It does need a good BBQ sauce with it - not the store bought stuff that you use for cooking with.

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Phil aka Captain Cook
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Davo »

Phil,
How often do they hold that BBQ comp?

Sounds like they (the organisers) were just winging it as they go along. who were the judges? were they qualified chefs/food critics or just a committee who thinks they know what brisket tastes like?

I s'pose we shouldn't discourage them from doing things in the name of BBQ as this is what we eventually want to acheive with ABBQA, but it sounds like they need some kind of rules and procedures to go by.
Insurance is the killer as well as bad tainted food if the public taste samples but then,what about the judges? what happens if they get food poisoning? would that be covered by same type of insurance as the public? or different because they are part of the event? either way..i could get ugly if the law gets involved.

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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Captain Cook »

They hold it every year. Google "heathdale bbq festival" I went in the first one.

The organisers had an insurance for the Judges we didn't need cover for that so we were told but we did for public liability. The council health people came around and inspected. We all had to submit a food handling safety plan before the day and had to show compliance to it to the council health people.

It's not like you can just front up with a WSM and cook your heart out. Meat inspection starts at 9 am first turn-in is a 1 pm. Doesn't even give the rub or marinade a chance to take. The meat must be fresh and stored at less than 5 C when they inspect it. They use a thermometer.

Cheers

Phil aka Captain Cook
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Davo »

Only 4 Hours? bloody hell!!....if it was a cook off in American, it'd take near that long to stoke up those massive smokers and set up camp....

I was reading many of the events in USA, most folks get to the grounds on Friday arvo, set up camp, cookers etc and have everything ready for examination from the inspectors on sat morning and the food doesn't get judged till 1-2pm on Sunday afternoon.
But here in Oz, In 4 hours, everyhting would have to be either roasted of grilled...no time for low & slow.

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imarty
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by imarty »

I'm going to try and encapslate and respond to a lot of the comments on this thread and see if I can provide a solution to the problem of not being able to access US style briskets;

First of all the major difference between US & Australian beef is the bulk of US beef is grain fed (more corn based whereas our GF beef is more wheat & barley)for extended periods of times. This eqates to better efficiencies in terms of feed conversion to weight gain and coupled with slightly different cutting lines and cooking methods they're happy with bigger end pieces of meat.
We do produce this type of beef here just it's exported.

The main beef available here mainstream is grassfed (becoming increasingly harder to source except in smaller butchers and often in regional areas) or grain fed (70-100 days) and killed still at 12-24 months of age.

A good butcher (hell even an average one if he breaks his own beef) should be able to give you a whole brisket in the way you want. Let him know what you want to do with it so he can bone and trim it to your specs.
If you want big briskets I'm pretty sure you'll only get them as point or navel end and once again, ask your butcher to source you some export grain fed point end brisket. You'll almost certainly need to buy at least a carton (20kgs odd) so get together with your mates or make sure you've got plenty of room in your fridge or freezer. It'll be vacuum packed so should last for a few weeks in a cold fridge.

That my friends is the only way I know how to get the closest thing to US style brisket.
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Captain Cook
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Captain Cook »

Great info Marty, thanks for the heads up. It's great to have someone so knowledgeable about meat on the forum.
Now my dumb question. Is Tri-Tip our Topside?

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Cap'n
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by imarty »

No such thing as a dumb question Cap'n, same as there's no such thing as bad meat, you've just got to know what to do with it!
Tri-tip is actually from two Aussie cuts, the rump and the round. The way we break up a beef carcase these primals (the large pieces of meat as they're known before you slice them in to steaks or chops etc) the rump and round, are intersected, leaving a bit of the tri-tip on both. Butchers will often refer to these bits as the "cap' on the round (the little triangular shaped bit on the top of a round steak) and the tail on the rump (the little longish muscle which hangs of the end/side of the rump). When in one piece the tri tip is triangular in shape, hence tri-tip. Pretty imaginative bunch us butchers!
Once again, if you ask any half decent butcher, they'd be happy to prepare one for you in most cases.
Our Topside (also sometimes known as Inside because it comes from the inside of the leg) in known as Top Round in the US. A horrible cut IMO only good for mincing, biltong or jerky as I find it too dry, even with low & slow.
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Buccaneer

Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Buccaneer »

imarty wrote: Our Topside (also sometimes known as Inside because it comes from the inside of the leg) in known as Top Round in the US. A horrible cut IMO only good for mincing, biltong or jerky as I find it too dry, even with low & slow.

I have found a brother!
You are the only person I have EVER come across that holds this view....aside from me I mean..., I have argued this point my entire cooking life!
Flash fried in a duper hot wok rare is still bordering intolerable!
BROTHER! :D
imarty
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Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by imarty »

Right on brother Buccaneer!
Have any of you non believers ever wondered why not so long ago good quality mince was known as topside mince? Our butcher forefathers knew it was crap to roast or as a steak so they just minced it. It is also very lean which is why it dries out so quickly but will perform ok in mince type dishes.

Sure it looks attractive and that can be the only reason that it is still sold as a grilling/frying/bbq steak in supermarkets and average butchers. Go to any good quality (and I mean GOOD) butcher and they won't have topside steak in their display.

My final word on this is the anatomical name for one of the major muscles in the topside is semi-membranosis.
Semi as in "nearly" and membranosis as in "membrane".
From Wiki: A membrane is a layer of material which serves as a selective barrier between two phases and remains impermeable to specific particles, molecules, or substances when exposed to the action of a driving force.

Whaddya reckon Brother Bucc?

Oh, and sorry for for taking this conversation off topic. I'll go now...
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Buccaneer

Re: PROPER sized Brisket and Pork spare ribs ?

Post by Buccaneer »

imarty wrote:Right on brother Buccaneer!
Have any of you non believers ever wondered why not so long ago good quality mince was known as topside mince? Our butcher forefathers knew it was crap to roast or as a steak so they just minced it. It is also very lean which is why it dries out so quickly but will perform ok in mince type dishes.

Sure it looks attractive and that can be the only reason that it is still sold as a grilling/frying/bbq steak in supermarkets and average butchers. Go to any good quality (and I mean GOOD) butcher and they won't have topside steak in their display.

My final word on this is the anatomical name for one of the major muscles in the topside is semi-membranosis.
Semi as in "nearly" and membranosis as in "membrane".
From Wiki: A membrane is a layer of material which serves as a selective barrier between two phases and remains impermeable to specific particles, molecules, or substances when exposed to the action of a driving force.

Whaddya reckon Brother Bucc?

Oh, and sorry for for taking this conversation off topic. I'll go now...
Love your work, dude.
I had semi-membranosis in maths classes!
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