Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further thoughts.

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MrT
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Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further thoughts.

Post by MrT »

Hi all

I've been reading some interesting stuff lately that I'd thought I would share with you all. If this is not new information to you, I apologise, but I suspect you will find this interesting.

I've been reading a book called the Modernist Cuisine at Home (ebook is $85), and stumbled across something called the 'wet bulb' temperature. The wet bulb temperature is the 'apparent temperature' that you see on the weather report. It is a combination of the dry bulb temperature (actual air temperature) and the humidity, and represents the apparent temperature to a wet object, taking account of the loss of energy due to evaporation. It is why on a humid day you feel hotter than on a dry day - because on the humid day the wet bulb temperature (apparent temperature) is hotter than the dry day, since the evaporation of your sweat is reduced. To measure the wet bulb temperature requires special instruments, basically a thermometer with a moisture wick.

What has this got to do with cooking? Everything. As is rightly pointed out on the forums, the stall when BBQing is indeed caused by the evaporation of the meat juices, which takes energy away from the meat, keeping it cooler. More precisely, what has happened is that the temperature of the meat has reached equilibrium with the wet bulb temperature inside the BBQ. So the meat temperature is not rising because, as far as the slab of wet ribs is concerned, it has reached equilibrium with the surrounding temperature. In fact, as the humidity of the air inside the BBQ decreases (which will happen as the meat surface dries out and the water pan dries up), so does the wet bulb temperature, which is why the meat temp can actually go backwards during the stall!

This article I found has a really helpful explanation and graphic: http://modernistcuisine.com/2012/08/barbecue-stall/

So, the bad news is that the meat will continue to stall until one of two things happen: the wet bulb temperature is increased, or the meat becomes a dry object.

As much as fat and gelatine somewhat mask the loss of moisture, you would all agree with me that moist meat is better than dry meat. So we need to increase the wet bulb temperature.

There are two ways to increase the wet bulb temperature, all other things being held equal. First, increase the dry bulb temperature, ie the actual temperature of the BBQ. This is sub optimal, as you will further dry out your meat. Second, increase the humidity surrounding the meat. You can increase the humidity surrounding the meat by either adding moisture to the BBQ (eg a water pan, or some other way of injecting steam into the BBQ), or trapping the air around the meat ( ie airtight wrap in foil, oven bag, vac bag etc).

So, what are your goals with your BBQed meat? Smokey, juicy tender pull apart meat plus a crunchy outside? This is not possible with a simple set-up-and-leave approach. If you really want to take your BBQing to the next level, you are going to have to address each of these goals individually. I think the old 3-2-1 method of cooking ribs (or 2-2-1 or 1-2-1 or whatever you want to argue is optimal) has helpfully separated the cooking stage into three stages, which target three things individually. I think we should consider this approach as a standard for all BBQing.

First step - add smoke flavour. This is best done when the meat is cold and wet. Always get the smoke flowing before you put your meat into the BBQ, and always have a water pan! If the water pan is causing your temps to be lower than you want them, increase your BBQ, don't remove the moisture. I'm guessing maybe a couple of hours... At most until the stall.

Second step - cook the meat and hydrolyse the collagen. This is what takes much time, as breaking down all that tough connective tissue is a slow process. However, the key at this point is to not let the meat dry out. So at the very least, wrap your meat in foil as airtight as possible. Alternatively, use an oven bag. Or seal it in a vac pac and cook it sous vide (you could even do this in the BBQ). Or use a combi oven if you have one (steam oven). Or figure out some other way of getting the humidity up inside the BBQ (I don't think that just a water pan is enough). The key at this point is to get the humidity and hence the wet bulb temperature up. And don't necessarily be afraid of the stall. In a sense, sous vide cooking is all about stalling.

Third step - crisp up the outside, or get that sticky BBQ sauce thing happening. I'm guessing that the best thing for this would be reasonably high dry heat... But you would probably want to do it quite quickly, as you don't want to dry out the rest of the meat. I'm not heaps sure on this one, but half the fun is working it out. Maybe all vents open until it's at the desired level of crispiness?

So, there it is. My thoughts on slightly modernist BBQing. I know I'm only relatively new to the BBQ scene, and am in no way an expert or competition champion or anything like that. But I feel like bringing some more science to the table is always a good thing. And if that leads us to push back a bit on the status quo of how to do things, that's ok too.

Would love your thoughts. Feel free to push back too :)
Smokey
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by Smokey »

You have it precisely MrT
I found that rather than foil wrap, I place meat in a SS pan with liquids / sauce and seal up with foil.
Sometimes 100% liquid / sauce emersion
Then baste with same liquids over higher dry heat to get the crisp / colour I want.
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
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2browndogs
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by 2browndogs »

Nice post. Gets you thinking of possibilities for the next cook.
chriso
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by chriso »

Pity the fool who don't consider science while bbqing. Mmmmm.
the dane
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by the dane »

would the same things happen if the bbq was under cover or in a shed? with the humidity etc!

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MrT
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by MrT »

the dane wrote:would the same things happen if the bbq was under cover or in a shed? with the humidity etc!

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Yep. The humidity in the air is still going to be relatively low, since the hot air inside the kettle will still rise out of the top vents, taking the moisture with it! Unless perhaps your tumble dryer is inside the shed too, drying a load of towels, and the shed is super humid!

On that note, I'd be interested to know whether the humidity inside the BBQ can be less than the surrounding air, or if the surrounding air is the lower limit of the humidity inside the BBQ... Anyone have any thoughts?

Also, has anyone found that there is less stall and juicier meat when BBQing on a really humid day? Maybe our far north Queensland folk could comment...

Even still, you are going to have to cook your meat in 100% humidity to guarantee juicy meat (ie an oven bag or something else to similar effect, or a steam oven).
Smokey
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by Smokey »

I know its makes a difference when drying jerky in my sunbeam so it stands to reason that the air being sucked in from the bottom of a bbq will give a possitive / negative effect depending on the RH of the day.
On a side note, Some people dont foil and prefer dry ribs as an example. So that is a spanner in the works.
Also interesting to note that what many of us did to get the means to an end without totaly understanding what is going on.
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
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MrT
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by MrT »

Smokey Mick wrote:Some people dont foil and prefer dry ribs as an example.
True... Some people prefer well done steak too... ;)
Smokey
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by Smokey »

MrT wrote:
Smokey Mick wrote:Some people dont foil and prefer dry ribs as an example.
True... Some people prefer well done steak too... ;)
Talk to the hand :mrgreen: :roll:
Bite my tougne :D
If trees screamed when we cut them down, We wouldn't. If they screamed all the time we would.
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urbangriller
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by urbangriller »

MrT wrote: On that note, I'd be interested to know whether the humidity inside the BBQ can be less than the surrounding air, or if the surrounding air is the lower limit of the humidity inside the BBQ... Anyone have any thoughts?

Technically, yes you can, a Dry Kamado running Low and Slow, Salt block cooking?

Also, has anyone found that there is less stall and juicier meat when BBQing on a really humid day? Maybe our far north Queensland folk could comment...

Plenty of BBQ's use a water pan for that reason: The ProQ and WSM are "Water Smokers" and Reverse flow cabinet smokers also have a water pan option, offsets are often filled with water, all of those give you the option to increase the humidity in the cooker.
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the dane
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Post by the dane »

so what about a normal oven?????

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Basher
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by Basher »

Very enlightening mr T.
I've never heard of wet bulb temps, however, after discussing, some peeps have been onto this for 30 years. Especially in the refrigeration/ air con industry.
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MrT
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Re:

Post by MrT »

the dane wrote:so what about a normal oven?????
What about it? This will equally apply, as they are essentially the same thing. Meat will still stall in a normal oven. In fact, that link I posted did the tests in a normal oven, not a BBQ.
urbangriller wrote:Plenty of BBQ's use a water pan for that reason: The ProQ and WSM are "Water Smokers" and Reverse flow cabinet smokers also have a water pan option, offsets are often filled with water, all of those give you the option to increase the humidity in the cooker.
Agreed. But the wet bulb temp is still less than the indicated temp, since the humidity isn't 100%. Hence the stall still happens. And if people decide to not use the water pan, or use something like sand, the stall will be even more pronounced.
Jester
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Re: Wet bulb temperature, the stall, and some further though

Post by Jester »

MrT wrote:And if people decide to not use the water pan, or use something like sand, the stall will be even more pronounced.
From what I've seen its the opposite - higher humidity slows and makes for a longer stall. The lower the temp, the bigger the difference.
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urbangriller
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Re: Re:

Post by urbangriller »

MrT wrote:
the dane wrote:so what about a normal oven?????
What about it? This will equally apply, as they are essentially the same thing. Meat will still stall in a normal oven. In fact, that link I posted did the tests in a normal oven, not a BBQ.
urbangriller wrote:Plenty of BBQ's use a water pan for that reason: The ProQ and WSM are "Water Smokers" and Reverse flow cabinet smokers also have a water pan option, offsets are often filled with water, all of those give you the option to increase the humidity in the cooker.
Agreed. But the wet bulb temp is still less than the indicated temp, since the humidity isn't 100%. Hence the stall still happens. And if people decide to not use the water pan, or use something like sand, the stall will be even more pronounced.
And that's why we have steam ovens in commercial kitchens, you can control the humidity to where you want it.

Chris
Common Sense is so rare these days it should be a Super Power!
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